NY GOES TO 180k! IT HAPPENED!!!! (CovingTTTon does a 180! Holder wept.) Forum

[a corsair]

I've been drinking since the news first broke so my memory is even worse than usual. Can someone remind me the origins of the cheese plate meme?

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/11/associat ... igibility/

Wait Skadden's billable requirement is only 1800? Are there really people that are making NY base+bonuses and just billing 1800, or is that "target" just for show? The article made it seem like there were people skating by on 1600 hours at Skadden, which seems unlikely.

[Tiago Splitter]

I've been drinking since the news first broke so my memory is even worse than usual. Can someone remind me the origins of the cheese plate meme?

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/11/associat ... igibility/

Wait Skadden's billable requirement is only 1800? Are there really people that are making NY base+bonuses and just billing 1800, or is that "target" just for show? The article made it seem like there were people skating by on 1600 hours at Skadden, which seems unlikely.

lol @ 1800. Cravath's billable requirement is zero.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

The only firms that don't have bonus minimums are the ones where associates would never need one.

[Anonymous User]

I've been drinking since the news first broke so my memory is even worse than usual. Can someone remind me the origins of the cheese plate meme?

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/11/associat ... igibility/

Wait Skadden's billable requirement is only 1800? Are there really people that are making NY base+bonuses and just billing 1800, or is that "target" just for show? The article made it seem like there were people skating by on 1600 hours at Skadden, which seems unlikely.

I wasn't at Skadden, but I recently left a non-NY office of an NY firm (I know, lol at leaving right before NY to 180). I was barely billing 1800 and was making NY market + bonus. That may seem awesome, but the main reason I left is was I was afraid I was going to get laid off because I was barely billing 1800 and was making NY market + bonus. Plus my co-workers were terrible.

[Anonymous User]

How much do we think Morgan Lewis will drag its feet?

Unfortunately, probably for a while. One can hope though... at least for NYC/SF/BOS/CHI/DC..

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, my firm has NY associates who bill 1600-1800 and still get full bonus

[Anonymous User]

The only firms that don't have bonus minimums are the ones where associates would never need one.

Not true. I'm at a Magic Circle firm and we have no bonus minimums, and I wouldn't say we're working crazy hours. 1800 your first year seems plenty realistic.

[Anonymous User]

Anecdotally, plenty of 1st-3rd years billing 1800ish at Skadden.

[Big Shrimpin]

The only firms that don't have bonus minimums are the ones where associates would never need one.

Not true. I'm at a Magic Circle firm and we have no bonus minimums, and I wouldn't say we're working crazy hours. 1800 your first year seems plenty realistic.

how TF do u bill 1800 and feel like OK about not getting FIRED (or at least getting teh "talk")?

past 3 years i did like 2400ish, 1800ish and 2000ish, and during 2nd year i was sweating BULLETS abot gittin fired

[Anonymous User]

Anyone else at random V50-ish Firms hoping their firm doesn't match so they aren't tempted to start offing people?

[lhanvt13]

Anyone else at random V50-ish Firms hoping their firm doesn't match so they aren't tempted to start offing people?

gtfo

[Anonymous User]

The only firms that don't have bonus minimums are the ones where associates would never need one.

Not true. I'm at a Magic Circle firm and we have no bonus minimums, and I wouldn't say we're working crazy hours. 1800 your first year seems plenty realistic.

how TF do u bill 1800 and feel like OK about not getting FIRED (or at least getting teh "talk")?

past 3 years i did like 2400ish, 1800ish and 2000ish, and during 2nd year i was sweating BULLETS abot gittin fired

Because our firm is still super profitable and we do the work that's available? It's not like we're turning down assignments to keep ourselves at 1800, and there are months where 240 hours get billed easy, but there are also slow months. I saw a recent bill for one of our clients and I had personally, in a relatively slow month, still earned $25k+ for the firm from just this one client. You do know your hourly rate, right? First years start at ~$350/hr, so at like 600 hours a year you're breaking even for your salary/bonus and your associated overhead. When you bill 2400 a year you are doing way more than earning your keep. Even 1800 a year is plenty enough for a firm to stay profitable - that's a minimum of $650k, at the lowest billing grade you'd see in NY. You could have half of that written off and still be very much in the black. Just because you felt like you had to be super duper profitable for your firm doesn't mean you should pass your anxiety on to everyone else.

[lurklaw]

But there would be more profit if the firm employed fewer associates who each billed much more than 1800 hours. Day one stuff, really.

[Anonymous User]

I've been drinking since the news first broke so my memory is even worse than usual. Can someone remind me the origins of the cheese plate meme?

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/11/associat ... igibility/

Wait Skadden's billable requirement is only 1800? Are there really people that are making NY base+bonuses and just billing 1800, or is that "target" just for show? The article made it seem like there were people skating by on 1600 hours at Skadden, which seems unlikely.

I can confirm that Skadden gave market bonuses to anyone who billed near 1600 prior to the bump to 1800 minimum. If you didn't bill 1600 once, you still got a market bonus, but were essentially put on probation. Miss 1600 again and you were politely shown the door.

EDIT 2: I want to clarify that this has come up in conversations with at least a dozen Skadden associates and counsel and the above is what I was told by every single one of them. Maybe some nuance is missing, but I have every reason to believe this was the standard at least pre-1800 minimum.

[Big Shrimpin]

cool story anon

glad u r doing super important work 4 ur firm and being very profitable

may the partnership winds forever blow in ur favor

[Anonymous User]

The only firms that don't have bonus minimums are the ones where associates would never need one.

Not true. I'm at a Magic Circle firm and we have no bonus minimums, and I wouldn't say we're working crazy hours. 1800 your first year seems plenty realistic.

how TF do u bill 1800 and feel like OK about not getting FIRED (or at least getting teh "talk")?

past 3 years i did like 2400ish, 1800ish and 2000ish, and during 2nd year i was sweating BULLETS abot gittin fired

Because our firm is still super profitable and we do the work that's available? It's not like we're turning down assignments to keep ourselves at 1800, and there are months where 240 hours get billed easy, but there are also slow months. I saw a recent bill for one of our clients and I had personally, in a relatively slow month, still earned $25k+ for the firm from just this one client. You do know your hourly rate, right? First years start at ~$350/hr, so at like 600 hours a year you're breaking even for your salary/bonus and your associated overhead. When you bill 2400 a year you are doing way more than earning your keep. Even 1800 a year is plenty enough for a firm to stay profitable - that's a minimum of $650k, at the lowest billing grade you'd see in NY. You could have half of that written off and still be very much in the black. Just because you felt like you had to be super duper profitable for your firm doesn't mean you should pass your anxiety on to everyone else.

Also, I know that some first years bill at a significantly higher rate (just under $500). The real question is what the threshold of tolerance is. Sure, 1600-1800 and you're fine. But what about lower - what is the cutoff for getting canned/no-bonused? Any anecdotes/insight?

[Anonymous User]

I've been drinking since the news first broke so my memory is even worse than usual. Can someone remind me the origins of the cheese plate meme?

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/11/associat ... igibility/

Wait Skadden's billable requirement is only 1800? Are there really people that are making NY base+bonuses and just billing 1800, or is that "target" just for show? The article made it seem like there were people skating by on 1600 hours at Skadden, which seems unlikely.

I can confirm that Skadden gave market bonuses to anyone who billed near 1600 prior to the bump to 1800 minimum. If you didn't bill 1600, you still got a market bonus, but were essentially put on probation. Miss 1600 twice and you were politely shown the door.

Do you mean that if someone billed <1600 for 2 years they are shown the door?

[TLSModBot]

NY to 180 Billable Hours per Year!

[Big Shrimpin]

NY to 180 Billable Hours per Year!

lol right?

wat do we think this is?

big firms generally seek to maximize ppp - simple formula

that means building leverage and squeezing associates

if u think ur gonna skate by on 1800s and make it to senior associate without some RIDICULOUS origination then ur fucking delusional

[TLSModBot]

NY to 180 Billable Hours per Year!

lol right?

wat do we think this is?

big firms generally seek to maximize ppp - simple formula

that means building leverage and squeezing associates

if u think ur gonna skate by on 1800s and make it to senior associate without some RIDICULOUS origination then ur fucking delusional

No see they can just bill me at $500 and never write down my time. Even 1200 hours * $500 = $600,000 which leaves profit enough for the partners, right?

Everyone just bill whatever the Biglaw stress is a lie

[Big Shrimpin]

NY to 180 Billable Hours per Year!

lol right?

wat do we think this is?

big firms generally seek to maximize ppp - simple formula

that means building leverage and squeezing associates

if u think ur gonna skate by on 1800s and make it to senior associate without some RIDICULOUS origination then ur fucking delusional

No see they can just bill me at $500 and never write down my time. Even 1200 hours * $500 = $600,000 which leaves profit enough for the partners, right?

Everyone just bill whatever the Biglaw stress is a lie

it's good to be back I've been gone 4 too long

[Anonymous User]

Will firms match sa compensation?

[Anonymous User]

Will firms match sa compensation?

PW did.

[Anonymous User]

Will firms match sa compensation?

PW did.

That's nice for them but nobody else should. The Summers are already there for the summer.

[Anonymous User]

I've been drinking since the news first broke so my memory is even worse than usual. Can someone remind me the origins of the cheese plate meme?

http://abovethelaw.com/2015/11/associat ... igibility/

Wait Skadden's billable requirement is only 1800? Are there really people that are making NY base+bonuses and just billing 1800, or is that "target" just for show? The article made it seem like there were people skating by on 1600 hours at Skadden, which seems unlikely.

I can confirm that Skadden gave market bonuses to anyone who billed near 1600 prior to the bump to 1800 minimum. If you didn't bill 1600 once, you still got a market bonus, but were essentially put on probation. Miss 1600 again and you were politely shown the door.

This is patently false. At Skadden, if you hit 1450 by the end of November last year [2015] (pro-rated 1600 for the year), you got market bonus. (If you somehow hit 1600 by the end of December, full market bonus.) If you were reasonably close (but didn't hit this mark), you got half bonus. Now, Skadden associates have to hit 1650 (pro-rated 1800) by the end of November to get market this year [2016]. Most Skadden associates (especially in Corporate) made bonus last year (but not all.) I'd say the majority of junior associates in Corporate (1st-3rd years) now bill anywhere in the range of 1600-2400 per year, with median around 1900-2000. Litigation associates probably consistently bill upward of 2000. Don't believe anyone is at risk of getting fired for missing bonus if practice group is slow.

As re: 180k, Skadden has not made any announcement. Strong possibility that a match will be announced via firm memo by end of week, and slimmer chance that compensation (likely a match IMHO) will be addressed at next week's State of the Firm meeting.