Hustling Forum
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Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
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thesealocust
- Posts: 8525
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:50 pm
Re: Hustling
That's pretty much it. Leaning on your personal network, contacting alums at firms, etc. all basically boils down to the same thing.
It might seem easy, but you would be surprised how many people phone it in for something so important.
It might seem easy, but you would be surprised how many people phone it in for something so important.
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Anonymous User
- Posts: 432524
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Hustling
Apply for everything. I hear a lot of people talk about how hard it is to find a job, but there are different perspectives on what "hard" means.
Like some of you, I graduated and went into the job market (after undergrad, for me) at a shitty economic time. Within the first few weeks of graduation, I formally applied for over 30 jobs (some applications, especially for gov't jobs, took several hours) and sent around 200 resumes and cover letters to prospective employers. Not the same resume or cover letter, but tailored documents for each job. I had over 15 copies of my resume saved as templates that I could then tailor depending on the job description.
I got a crappy part-time gig right away working primarily with people with G.E.D.'s and semi-retirees. I moved from that into a full-time job for which I was, on paper, overqualified but accepted anyway and actually enjoyed for quite some time. It was six months later--after dozens if not hundreds more applications and resumes--that I got an entry level job with decent future prospects. It took another eight months after that before I got promoted into a position consistent with my education and experience (e.g. the type of position a lot of people think they deserve right when they graduate. I eventually went to law school and graduated at a still-pretty-shitty time and got a job right out of school. Go figure. Anyway, it's just one story, but hopefully it gives at least one perspective on your question. I'm not saying I'm awesome or whatever; just that there are some other people hustling at that level and a hell of a people not putting that effort in and just complaining about not landing the 1-2 jobs per month they see fit to apply for, in the market(s) they "need" and the specific area of a profession that they "want."
TL;DR: I think it's helpful to define what hustling is NOT. Hustling is not applying to select jobs that meet your criteria and then holding your breath that you get one of these select jobs. It's working at what's available until you can get what you want. It's applying to jobs in any area, any state, potentially out of the country. And it's measuring your legitimate contacts in the hundreds, not tens. And having those contacts be tailored and as meaningful as you possibly can. So basically, it's like being willing to screw anyone at the bar.
Like some of you, I graduated and went into the job market (after undergrad, for me) at a shitty economic time. Within the first few weeks of graduation, I formally applied for over 30 jobs (some applications, especially for gov't jobs, took several hours) and sent around 200 resumes and cover letters to prospective employers. Not the same resume or cover letter, but tailored documents for each job. I had over 15 copies of my resume saved as templates that I could then tailor depending on the job description.
I got a crappy part-time gig right away working primarily with people with G.E.D.'s and semi-retirees. I moved from that into a full-time job for which I was, on paper, overqualified but accepted anyway and actually enjoyed for quite some time. It was six months later--after dozens if not hundreds more applications and resumes--that I got an entry level job with decent future prospects. It took another eight months after that before I got promoted into a position consistent with my education and experience (e.g. the type of position a lot of people think they deserve right when they graduate. I eventually went to law school and graduated at a still-pretty-shitty time and got a job right out of school. Go figure. Anyway, it's just one story, but hopefully it gives at least one perspective on your question. I'm not saying I'm awesome or whatever; just that there are some other people hustling at that level and a hell of a people not putting that effort in and just complaining about not landing the 1-2 jobs per month they see fit to apply for, in the market(s) they "need" and the specific area of a profession that they "want."
TL;DR: I think it's helpful to define what hustling is NOT. Hustling is not applying to select jobs that meet your criteria and then holding your breath that you get one of these select jobs. It's working at what's available until you can get what you want. It's applying to jobs in any area, any state, potentially out of the country. And it's measuring your legitimate contacts in the hundreds, not tens. And having those contacts be tailored and as meaningful as you possibly can. So basically, it's like being willing to screw anyone at the bar.
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CanadianWolf
- Posts: 11453
- Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm
Re: Hustling
I disagree to a small extent with the above post. If "willing to screw anyone at the bar" results in short stints with multiple employers, then it detracts from your candidacy for future employment, in my opinion.
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Anonymous User
- Posts: 432524
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Hustling
(Anon from earlier.) Well, you gotta be willing to stay with them for a little while after the first romp too. That's actually the hard part.
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CanadianWolf
- Posts: 11453
- Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm
Re: Hustling
Agree that it may be necessary to pay one's bills & living expenses, but choppy resumes raise too many red flags that the applicant may never get a chance to explain.
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Anonymous User
- Posts: 432524
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Hustling
Hustling TBH is more about the networking and reaching out to meet people. I think its more of an active process than simply sending out emails.
I had phone calls like four or five days a week during May with random attorneys I had emailed. I'm seeing results, through various screeners and direct cbs rolling in from these networking attempts while I'm getting f***ed at diversity fairs and my own OCI.
I had phone calls like four or five days a week during May with random attorneys I had emailed. I'm seeing results, through various screeners and direct cbs rolling in from these networking attempts while I'm getting f***ed at diversity fairs and my own OCI.
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Anonymous User
- Posts: 432524
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Hustling
For me, hustling was about reaching out to people, meeting them and making them walk away wanting to help me, being persistent, keeping my contacts up to date in my search, and following every lead I got to the very end. I was putting in a lot of applications, but I was also going to a ton of lunches to meet people. I tried my best to back up applications by making a contact with someone at the firm directly or through an established contact.
Unlike the advice above, I did target my search by narrowing down that firms I really wanted, and I limited my search to one market. I would work hard to make contacts and connections with those firms and made sure to have more than one person recommend me to a partner that was a part of the hiring decision. For firms that I was so-so about, I usually would wait to do anything until I received an interview before moving forward with my contacts for support.
My approach isn't for everyone, but it paid off for me. I went from a low T1 school to a clerkship (not SSC or fed) to a V50 firm. If I went by my class rank or the advertised experience level required, I wouldn't have gotten in front of any one for job interviews. It was hustling that made it happen.
Unlike the advice above, I did target my search by narrowing down that firms I really wanted, and I limited my search to one market. I would work hard to make contacts and connections with those firms and made sure to have more than one person recommend me to a partner that was a part of the hiring decision. For firms that I was so-so about, I usually would wait to do anything until I received an interview before moving forward with my contacts for support.
My approach isn't for everyone, but it paid off for me. I went from a low T1 school to a clerkship (not SSC or fed) to a V50 firm. If I went by my class rank or the advertised experience level required, I wouldn't have gotten in front of any one for job interviews. It was hustling that made it happen.
