UChicago OCI 2015 Forum

[Anonymous User]

I don't see Latham on the list for OCI this year. Am I missing something?

Edit: Ok I see them under New York. Does this mean I'll be interviewing for all offices and I specify which I want in the interview? Or does it mean that their Chi office just wont be at OCI therefore > mass mail?

[N.P.H.]

If you to go a lit firm and say "I want corporate," you generally have less of a chance there (because they're not hiring for it or because it appears you didn't do basic research and aren't truly interested). And Jenner is competitive as is because of their lit strength.

That said, if they turn out to have a need in corporate, they might have lower standards (because selectivity generally correlates with strength of practice). This isn't likely. And even if it happens, you're not getting very much bang for your buck. You're bumping down every other firm by 1 (reducing your chances at most of them slightly) for an offer you probably wouldn't accept anyway.

I think there was someone last year who demanded to bid Jenner highly despite their corporate-only focus. Maybe they can share their experience if they are still around

[Anonymous User]

This has been said in this thread, but I think it is really important to really understand so I'm going to repeat it--there is no such thing as a Chicago "safety."

The safety for Chicago is NYC.

The smaller Chicago firms may be looking to take only 1 or 2 people, so they are looking very carefully and specifically for what they want. If you have a 180 and you're interviewing with Katten, unless you can give a very compelling reason why you want to go there specifically, you're not getting a callback. They'll know you're just trying to use them as a backup plan.

Giant NYC firms just need bodies and they don't get a lot of UChicago interest (e.g. DPW only has 2 summers there from c/o 2016) so your odds there are much better.

Don't assume that lower Vault ranking means lower selectivity. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

I’m bidding on Chi/NY. I understand that NY is the backup for Chicago and that lower ranked Chi firms aren't easier to get than higher ranked ones. Does this hold true for NY firms also? If I want NY safeties, are the higher Vault-ranked firms with massive classes safer bets than firms in the V30-50 range with only 21 interview slots in terms of likelihood of receiving an offer? For instance, assuming I got interviews at both, is it easier to get an offer from Skadden (84) or from Cadwalader (21)?

[2014]

This has been said in this thread, but I think it is really important to really understand so I'm going to repeat it--there is no such thing as a Chicago "safety."

The safety for Chicago is NYC.

The smaller Chicago firms may be looking to take only 1 or 2 people, so they are looking very carefully and specifically for what they want. If you have a 180 and you're interviewing with Katten, unless you can give a very compelling reason why you want to go there specifically, you're not getting a callback. They'll know you're just trying to use them as a backup plan.

Giant NYC firms just need bodies and they don't get a lot of UChicago interest (e.g. DPW only has 2 summers there from c/o 2016) so your odds there are much better.

Don't assume that lower Vault ranking means lower selectivity. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

I’m bidding on Chi/NY. I understand that NY is the backup for Chicago and that lower ranked Chi firms aren't easier to get than higher ranked ones. Does this hold true for NY firms also? If I want NY safeties, are the higher Vault-ranked firms with massive classes safer bets than firms in the V30-50 range with only 21 interview slots in terms of likelihood of receiving an offer? For instance, assuming I got interviews at both, is it easier to get an offer from Skadden (84) or from Cadwalader (21)?

Kind of? But it's less of a rule. The issue with New York firms is that with a few exceptions they all callback a similar ratio of people in the door (like 30-40%). So if for whatever reason a lot of the super employable people in your class all interview with some of the 21 slot firms, they are likely to take up several of the 5-6 callbacks that those firms have to give. Otherwise put, firms are not necessarily as good at yield protecting as they probably should be. The result is that there will people who would have been THRILLED to have a Cadwalader callback for example but 4 of their 6 callbacks will go to people who will schedule those callbacks late and ultimately cancel them after they get their Simpson offer or whatever.

That being said there are a lot of NY firms and so not all of them will be filled with the people who clean up on callbacks, and some of them are better than others at yield protecting (it's unfortunately interviewer dependent so not super predictable).

The real reason NY is a safety market is because basically all of the 42/63 slot firms will call back a dozen or more people and don't particularly care about your grades within reason. Additionally, once you get the callback from those firms the CB-->Offer ratio is usually like 60%+ which is well higher than Chicago. This means that even if you are someone who gets 4 CBs in NY and your friend gets 4 CBs in Chicago, it may look like you both did equally well at OCI but you might have 3 firms to choose from, 2 of which will probably be V10s, and your friend will probably have 1 firm to choose and it might be one that doesn't even have the practice group they wanted, has a 9 person summer class, and a non-100% offer rate.

[Anonymous User]

The real reason NY is a safety market is because basically all of the 42/63 slot firms will call back a dozen or more people and don't particularly care about your grades within reason. Additionally, once you get the callback from those firms the CB-->Offer ratio is usually like 60%+ which is well higher than Chicago. This means that even if you are someone who gets 4 CBs in NY and your friend gets 4 CBs in Chicago, it may look like you both did equally well at OCI but you might have 3 firms to choose from, 2 of which will probably be V10s, and your friend will probably have 1 firm to choose and it might be one that doesn't even have the practice group they wanted, has a 9 person summer class, and a non-100% offer rate.

All of the people using high bid spots for firms like baker/katten/dechert/DLA/Chapman Chicago as opposed to solid NYC vault firms should really consider what has been said here.

[beepboopbeep]

Listen to 2014 preach.

[Anonymous User]

Grades: Transfer from lower t14. Top 15-20%
URM: No
Work: Good, relevant work experience
Preferred market: 1. Chi 2. NY
Practice Area: Litigation leaning but open to transactional
Misc:
-I accepted my transfer offer late and cobbled this list together as best/quickly as I could after reading through past threads and previous posts, so sorry in advance for any obvious errors.
-Good ties I think, esp. since I transferred because of them
-I've heard that Sidley and Latham Chi don't love transfers. With that said, does it make sense to use 2 of my top-5 bid spots on them?
-I know from a report provided by my old school that my grades made me competitive at the top NY firms I include in my list below. But I'm wondering if anyone can speak to my chances at those firms given my status as a transfer. Should I bid more conservatively/include better safeties?

1. Kirkland (Chi) 84
2. Sidley (Chi) 84
3. Latham & Watkins (Chi) 61
4. Jenner (Chi) 63
5. Mayer Brown (Chi) 73
6. Baker & McKenzie (Chi) 21
7. McDermott (Chi) 63
8. Jones Day (Chi) 42
9. schiff hardin llp (Chi) 84
10. Skadden (NY) 84
11. Paul Weiss (NY) 42
12. Sullivan & Cromwell (NY) 42
13. Simpson Thacher (NY) 63
14. Cleary (NY) 42
15. Davis Polk (NY) 42
16. Debevoise & Plimpton (NY) 63
17. Cravath (NY) 38
18. Wilmer Hale (NY) 21
19. Proskauer Rose (NY) 21
20. mcguirewoods LLP (Chi) 21
21. Dechert (Chi) 42
22. Vinson & Elkins LLP (NY) 21
23. Chadbourne & Parke LLP (NY) 21
24. Morrison & Foerster L.L.P. (NY) 21
25. Milbank Tweed Hadley & McCloy LLP (NY) 21
26. Foley & Lardner (NY) 21
27. Norton Rose (NY) 21
28. freshfields bruckhaus deringer LLP (NY) 20
29. Hughes Hubbard & Reed L.L.P. (NY) 21
30. O'Melveny & Myers LLP (NY) 7
31. Edelson (Chi) 21
32. Curtis Mallet-Prevost Colt & Mosle (NY) 21
33. Sheppard Mullin Richter & Hampton LLP (Chi) 21
34. Dentons (Chi) 21
35. Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati (NY) 12

[Anonymous User]

Can I get some feedback on what # I should bid Sidley NY (21), Jones Day NY (21), Latham NY (31), and STB NY (63) please.

+ any tips on how to form my NY 21 slot bids after #15? Having really trouble figuring out how to order them once I am after#20.

Thank you.

[N.P.H.]

Can I get some feedback on what # I should bid Sidley NY (21), Jones Day NY (21), Latham NY (31), and STB NY (63) please.

+ any tips on how to form my NY 21 slot bids after #15? Having really trouble figuring out how to order them once I am after#20.

Thank you.

Check past threads on this (or check our comments to the other bidlists in this thread).

As for after 21, it's a crapshoot. Throw in firms you've never heard of (if no one knows to bid them, you might get lucky). Others who had more success after 21 may be able to help more than I.


As to the transfer dude: I know we have some transfers on TLS who could probably help more than me. But if they don't reach out PM me.

[Anonymous User]

Here's my after 21 from last year:

21 MTO LA
22 A&P DC (MISS)*
23 Cravath NY (MISS)
24 Wilmer DC (MISS)
25 Debevoise NY (MISS)
26 Irell LA
27 Steptoe DC
28 White & Case DC
29 Ivins DC
30 Wilson Sonsini
31 Sidley CA
32 Susman Houston
33 WLRK
34 Eimer (MISS)
35 PH LA (MISS)
36 Fenwick (MISS)
37 Perkins Seattle
38 Crowell DC (MISS)
39 Jenner DC (MISS)
40 Sheppard Mullin DC
41 Allen & Overy DC
42 Baker Botts DC
43 Axinn DC
44 BakerHostetler LA (MISS)
45 Cooley LA (MISS)
46 Freshfields DC (MISS)
47 Goodwin SF (MISS)
48 Harris Wiltshire DC
49 Stroock LA
50 OCC DC (MISS)

Not a huge help for NY, but shows a bit of what NPH is talking about. You can pick up a lot after that, because of lot of lower-profile firms and grade-selective boutiques just don't fill at all. Whether you actually want to interview with them is another story, obviously.

[Anonymous User]

OCI bidding extended to Sunday. We can all take a sigh of relief.

[Anonymous User]

Can I get some review on how soon english firms in ny fill up like a&v (15) and freshfields (20)
also can i get some feedback on where to put sidley ny and mofo (21 slots but shared) and mayer brown ny (15)

i m hearing that a&o and mayer brown fill a little slower b/c its a 15 slot firm

thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Can I get some review on how soon english firms in ny fill up like a&v (15) and freshfields (20)
also can i get some feedback on where to put sidley ny and mofo (21 slots but shared) and mayer brown ny (15)

i m hearing that a&o and mayer brown fill a little slower b/c its a 15 slot firm

thanks!

[N.P.H.]

Grade: 177.3
URM: Yes (Not AA)
Work-experience: Essentially K-JD
Interest: Deals work, VC/PE/M&A

NYC:
1. Davis Polk
2. Simpson & Thacher
3. Skadden
4. S&C
5. Cravath

SV:
6. WSGR
7. Morrison & Foerster
8. Fenwick
9. Goodwin & Proctor

Chicago:
10. Sidley Austin
11. Mayer Brown
12. Winston & Strawn
13. Latham & Watkins
14. Jones Day

NYC:
15. Debevoise
16. Weil
17. Latham & Watkins
18. Paul Weiss
19. Sherman & Sterling
20. White & Case
21. K&E NYC
22. Fried Frank
23. Paul Hasting
24. Willkie Farr
25. Baker & Mckenzie

Rest:
26. NYC – Clifford Chance
27. Chicago - Schiff & Hardin
28. Chicago – Katten
29. Chicago – K & L Gates
30. Chicago – Perkins & Coie
31. Chicago – Reed Smith
32. Chicago – Dentons
33. Chicago – McGuire Woods

This bid list is all kinds of fucked up

Uhhhhh

What city do you want? That'll help start me off.


EDIT: You really need to take this seriously. This is exactly how people strike out.

I'm legit worried about you. Please PM me if you don't want to discuss on the thread. You can very easily strike out with this list.

[Anonymous User]

I understand that there are firms that don't allow multiple interviews. have anyone tried bidding for like london office for a firm and ask the interviewer that im interested in chicago? Im guessing that chicago slots will go out much faster

[beepboopbeep]

I haven't heard of anyone trying it because 99% chance they see right through it and you have less of a chance than if you'd just not bid the firm at all and tried to pick up a slot in add/drop.

A more mild version would work and happens all the time. If the firm is no multiple interviews but you're interested in both the DC/NY offices, could potentially pick up DC and say you're also interested in NY but couldn't do both screeners. But bidding London to try to sneak your way into a Chicago slot is a really bad idea.

[Anonymous User]

Don't try to weasel your way into more interviews. Half the battle at OCI is trying to seem genuine and enthusiastic. Don't compromise that. People aren't stupid.

[Anonymous User]

How am I looking to get Kirkland NY at spot 10 or 11? should I bump it up more?

[Anonymous User]

I think I read it in a thread somewhere before. What is a good title for the e-mail for mass-mailing? I think I remember seeing something that showed that I was from UChicago.

From what number of SA class is it considered worth mass-mailing for NY firms (to be considered sizable)?

[N.P.H.]

I think I read it in a thread somewhere before. What is a good title for the e-mail for mass-mailing? I think I remember seeing something that showed that I was from UChicago.

From what number of SA class is it considered worth mass-mailing for NY firms (to be considered sizable)?

"[First name] [Last name] - Summer Associate Position" or "Summer Associate Position - [First name] [Last name]"

Include first and last in your document titles, too. I've been on the hiring side for non-law-firm things and it's much easier for me when an applicant's documents are properly titled (then I don't have to rename).

I did letter in email body and attached it as well, then I included "and a copy of this letter" under my list of things that were attached. Ended up having an offer going into OCI.

[N.P.H.]

How am I looking to get Kirkland NY at spot 10 or 11? should I bump it up more?

From purely a bidding perspective, I think it needs to be bid fairly high if you want to be safe. They have named half the law school and are attractive to people around median (the callback report indicates they aren't as grade selective in NY) and above (they're tops for private equity and bankruptcy). I'd check the other threads to see where they went, but I'd say around top 5 is good.

Others feel free to correct me.

[Anonymous User]

Grades: Transfer from T1, Top 5%
URM/Female: No but LGBT
Work Exp: 5 years, non-legal
Preferred Market: SF = Chi >> NY (filler)
Practice Area: Leaning transactional but still open to litigation, IP patent bar eligible but not a popular background
Misc: I am attending some job fairs prior to OCI and have knocked out a number of firms. I'll list them here to supplement my bidlist below.

Arnold & Porter (SF)
Baker Botts (SV)
Covington & Burling (SF)
Dechert (SV)
Fenwick & West (SV)
Foley & Lardner (firmwide)
Goodwin Procter (SF/SV)
Holland & Knight (SF)
Irell & Manella (LA)
Jenner & Block (Chicago)
Jones Day (Chicago)
K&L Gates (Chicago)
Kirkland & Ellis (Chicago)
Knobbe Martens (firmwide)
Latham & Watkins (firmwide)
McDermott Will & Emery (Chicago)
Morrison & Foerster (SF)
O'Melveny & Myers (SF)
Paul Weiss (NY)
Perkins Coie (SV)
Schiff Hardin (Chicago)
Sidley Austin (Chicago)
Simpson Thacher (SV)
Skadden (NY)
White & Case (SV)
WilmerHale (SV)
Winston & Strawn (Chicago)

Bid list:

1. Paul Hastings (SV) - 5
2. Pillsbury Winthrop (SF) - 6
3. Gibson Dunn & Crutcher (SV) - 10
4. Latham & Watkins (Chicago) - 61
5. Davis Polk & Wardwell (SV) - 21
6. DLA Piper (Chicago) - 21
7. Mayer Brown (Chicago) - 73
8. Kirkland & Ellis (SF) - 21
9. Sullivan & Cromwell (NY) - 42
10. Cleary Gottlieb (NY) - 42
11. Dentons (Chicago) - 21
12. Greenberg Traurig (Chicago) - 21
13. Boies Schiller & Flexner (Oakland) - 21
14. mcguirewoods (Chicago) - 21
15. Sheppard Mullin (SF) - 21
16. Gunderson Dettmer (SV) - 21
17. Cooley (SV) - 42
18. Ropes & Gray (SF) - 42
19. Wilson Sonsini (SV) - 40
20. Wachtell (NY) - 42
21. Cravath (NY) - 38
22. Debevoise & Plimpton (NY) - 63
23. Pattishall McAuliffe (Chicago) - 21
24. Katten (Chicago) - 42
25. Munger Tolles & Olson (LA) - 21

Thanks for any help & feedback.

[N.P.H.]

Grades: Transfer from T1, Top 5%
URM/Female: No but LGBT
Work Exp: 5 years, non-legal
Preferred Market: SF = Chi >> NY (filler)
Practice Area: Leaning transactional but still open to litigation, IP patent bar eligible but not a popular background
Misc: I am attending some job fairs prior to OCI and have knocked out a number of firms. I'll list them here to supplement my bidlist below.

Arnold & Porter (SF)
Baker Botts (SV)
Covington & Burling (SF)
Dechert (SV)
Fenwick & West (SV)
Foley & Lardner (firmwide)
Goodwin Procter (SF/SV)
Holland & Knight (SF)
Irell & Manella (LA)
Jenner & Block (Chicago)
Jones Day (Chicago)
K&L Gates (Chicago)
Kirkland & Ellis (Chicago)
Knobbe Martens (firmwide)
Latham & Watkins (firmwide)
McDermott Will & Emery (Chicago)
Morrison & Foerster (SF)
O'Melveny & Myers (SF)
Paul Weiss (NY)
Perkins Coie (SV)
Schiff Hardin (Chicago)
Sidley Austin (Chicago)
Simpson Thacher (SV)
Skadden (NY)
White & Case (SV)
WilmerHale (SV)
Winston & Strawn (Chicago)

Bid list:

1. Paul Hastings (SV) - 5
2. Pillsbury Winthrop (SF) - 6
3. Gibson Dunn & Crutcher (SV) - 10
4. Latham & Watkins (Chicago) - 61
5. Davis Polk & Wardwell (SV) - 21
6. DLA Piper (Chicago) - 21
7. Mayer Brown (Chicago) - 73
8. Kirkland & Ellis (SF) - 21
9. Sullivan & Cromwell (NY) - 42
10. Cleary Gottlieb (NY) - 42
11. Dentons (Chicago) - 21
12. Greenberg Traurig (Chicago) - 21
13. Boies Schiller & Flexner (Oakland) - 21
14. McGuireWoods (Chicago) - 21
15. Sheppard Mullin (SF) - 21
16. Gunderson Dettmer (SV) - 21
17. Cooley (SV) - 42
18. Ropes & Gray (SF) - 42
19. Wilson Sonsini (SV) - 40
20. Wachtell (NY) - 42
21. Cravath (NY) - 38
22. Debevoise & Plimpton (NY) - 63
23. Pattishall McAuliffe (Chicago) - 21
24. Katten (Chicago) - 42
25. Munger Tolles & Olson (LA) - 21

Thanks for any help & feedback.

All good except dentons, pattishall, deb, katten, mcguirewoods

Latham and a lot of cali firms can probably go down to compensate for those I listed

[Anonymous User]

.

[Lurk3r]

AZA is a lit boutique and Kirkland is a PE-powerhouse that only does transactional work in Houston. What do you want to do? Also, I wouldn't bid NY and Houston offices of the same firms. From what I understand, it is highly disfavored. Choose just one of the offices, unless you just don't care at all about the Houston office (they're the ones most likely to find the double-bidding problematic). Your 10-15 looks fine to me, but what do I know.