UChicago OCI 2015 Forum

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N.P.H.

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by N.P.H. » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:42 am

eazye wrote:First shot at a bid list.
Have we really scared people with 179s and an interest in lit to be afraid of Boies? I know a handful of people with Boies callbacks with similar grades. If you've got the balls to bid Gibson LA #1, you have to throw a shot at Boies.

I get the idea that you want safety firms like Fried Frank and Proskauer on there but you will almost certainly cancel your callback or screener with them (so basically you're wasting the bid). If I could do it over again, I would try to get safeties by mass mail or (if you need to) by add/drop and asking interviewers to speak with you over lunch or at the end of the day. Don't cut them all out, but to the extent you want to add better firms in, a 179 bidding NY is pretty safe when s/he blankets the v15 (like you've done).

Definitely mass mail Cahill & Willkie (any strong lit firm not coming to OCI).

Make sure you can sell Chicago ties hard to Kirkland. If they ask you who else in Chicago you're interviewing with, you need to have a prepackaged "I want to go to the best firm I can go to and I like Chicago for X reasons, but I'm also interviewing with [boies, Irell, munger, keker, etc]." Basically if your bidlist doesn't indicate Chicago, you need a coherent reason you're bidding them or they will brush you aside.
Last edited by N.P.H. on Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:46 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by N.P.H. » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Are there safeties in Chicago, (like chapman/winston/Katten(yeah I know fuck Winston) types?)
Thinking about "safeties" isn't a productive way to think about the OCI process in general, since firms are concerned about more than your grades. But for Chicago it's especially dangerous. This has been discussed ITT before so I'm not sure if it's just wishful thinking on your part, but Chicago firm class sizes drop off precipitously after the biggest five to six firms. There will be a very large number of people competing for what are likely only a handful of spots at firms like Katten and Chapman.
Agree with this. Unless you're married to Chicago, bid your "safeties" in NY. If you don't hit, you land at a better firm in NY with an opportunity to lateral to a good Chicago firm in a few years. There's more advice on this in the oci alums answering questions thread I believe.

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by 2014 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:47 am

Boies I believe is cutting their class size significantly and they already were hyper competitive. Still worth a bid but don't count on it.

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by N.P.H. » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:50 am

2014 wrote:Boies I believe is cutting their class size significantly and they already were hyper competitive. Still worth a bid but don't count on it.
Sure. Just trying to say he's over the cutoff and have more than a snowball's chance (at least, I'd say he has as much of a shot there as Gibson LA).

But really, do any 3Ls/alums know people with 179+ grades that went to Fried Frank (not saying it's not a great firm, ofc).

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by 2014 » Fri Jul 10, 2015 11:53 am

Very true haha. C/o 2015 had somewhere approaching zero NY people who had V20 options and chose anywhere else.

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by Emma. » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:02 pm

eazye wrote:First shot at a bid list.
This is way too many markets. Yes, you can always lie when people ask where else you are bidding, but even if the chances of getting caught in that lie are small, your chances at Keker and W&C are essentially nil.

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by RightorRight » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:52 pm

beepboopbeep wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just curious -- how selective are DC firms for reals? W&C, Covington, Hogan, WilmerHale DC??
Female/URM. ~178. No specific ties w/ DC but hoping for regulatory work.
Does anyone have any experience w/ them?
W&C: AFAIK, no offers to c/o 2016, though I know of at least one CB. 75% of the K&Es interviewed there. The CB I know of had a feeder clerkship lined up before OCI.
I know of four 2016 people with W&C callbacks, and at least two of them received offers. All were LR and near or above K&E cutoff.

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by WheninLaw » Fri Jul 10, 2015 1:23 pm

RightorRight wrote:
beepboopbeep wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Just curious -- how selective are DC firms for reals? W&C, Covington, Hogan, WilmerHale DC??
Female/URM. ~178. No specific ties w/ DC but hoping for regulatory work.
Does anyone have any experience w/ them?
W&C: AFAIK, no offers to c/o 2016, though I know of at least one CB. 75% of the K&Es interviewed there. The CB I know of had a feeder clerkship lined up before OCI.
I know of four 2016 people with W&C callbacks, and at least two of them received offers. All were LR and near or above K&E cutoff.
And 2015 had at least 2 people with offers. Good grades are...important.

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:57 pm

i know one no-LR, no-K&E, no-URM with W&C callback for c/o 2016 (dunno on offer). safe bet grades werent shabby but still seems like W&C is worth a bid for ppl bidding DC. that said my experience with DC is that if you want it you better have a reason why that doesnt include the word "politics."

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by mlady » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:46 pm

I apologize if I missed it when skimming the thread, but is anyone with experience in LA willing to take PMs about bidding? Thank you!

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:53 am

Anonymous User wrote:i know one no-LR, no-K&E, no-URM with W&C callback for c/o 2016 (dunno on offer). safe bet grades werent shabby but still seems like W&C is worth a bid for ppl bidding DC. that said my experience with DC is that if you want it you better have a reason why that doesnt include the word "politics."
And for Covington pretty much there was only 1 real offer for c/o 2016. High grades. Clerkship all lined up.
Crazy

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by Rahviveh » Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:10 am

N.P.H. wrote:
2014 wrote:Boies I believe is cutting their class size significantly and they already were hyper competitive. Still worth a bid but don't count on it.
Sure. Just trying to say he's over the cutoff and have more than a snowball's chance (at least, I'd say he has as much of a shot there as Gibson LA).

But really, do any 3Ls/alums know people with 179+ grades that went to Fried Frank (not saying it's not a great firm, ofc).
Am I missing something? Gibson LA isn't super selective, at least not near the same level as boies

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by WheninLaw » Sat Jul 11, 2015 12:33 pm

mlady wrote:I apologize if I missed it when skimming the thread, but is anyone with experience in LA willing to take PMs about bidding? Thank you!
Yep, PM away.

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by N.P.H. » Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:39 pm

Rahviveh wrote:
Am I missing something? Gibson LA isn't super selective, at least not near the same level as boies
I may be wrong about Gibson -- Cali wasn't my thing. But I know a lot of good people there (and they chose it over good/prestigious alternatives).

From what I've read here, maybe your year didn't do well at Boies, but I know a good amount of 179 callbacks from my year. Enough to say that we shouldn't be scaring 179+ NY/Lit people away from the firm.

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:44 pm

Where does Susman need to be? Grades needed to make it worth it?

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by WheninLaw » Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Where does Susman need to be? Grades needed to make it worth it?
Susman is a bit different, since (1) they don't interview a ton of people and (2) everyone on LR feels the need to interview there. In the past few years, you wanted to have them in your top 25 to get a screener.

You have a much better shot with ties to the office (especially for Houston and Seattle). Grades required can vary. While I know of a few 179/no LR's that have gotten CBs, the norm is K&E range.

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by N.P.H. » Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:54 pm

WheninLaw wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Where does Susman need to be? Grades needed to make it worth it?
Susman is a bit different, since (1) they don't interview a ton of people and (2) everyone on LR feels the need to interview there. In the past few years, you wanted to have them in your top 25 to get a screener.

You have a much better shot with ties to the office (especially for Houston and Seattle). Grades required can vary. While I know of a few 179/no LR's that have gotten CBs, the norm is K&E range.

I've been told offers are contingent on getting AIII clerkships. True?

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by WheninLaw » Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:55 pm

N.P.H. wrote:
WheninLaw wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Where does Susman need to be? Grades needed to make it worth it?
Susman is a bit different, since (1) they don't interview a ton of people and (2) everyone on LR feels the need to interview there. In the past few years, you wanted to have them in your top 25 to get a screener.

You have a much better shot with ties to the office (especially for Houston and Seattle). Grades required can vary. While I know of a few 179/no LR's that have gotten CBs, the norm is K&E range.

I've been told offers are contingent on getting AIII clerkships. True?
For the most part, yes.

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by beepboopbeep » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:i know one no-LR, no-K&E, no-URM with W&C callback for c/o 2016 (dunno on offer). safe bet grades werent shabby but still seems like W&C is worth a bid for ppl bidding DC. that said my experience with DC is that if you want it you better have a reason why that doesnt include the word "politics."
And for Covington pretty much there was only 1 real offer for c/o 2016. High grades. Clerkship all lined up.
Crazy
She also didn't do LR and wasn't K&E, which is why I've hesitated before saying that's necessary. Dunno what a "real offer" is (as compared to a fake offer?)
N.P.H. wrote:
Rahviveh wrote:
Am I missing something? Gibson LA isn't super selective, at least not near the same level as boies
I may be wrong about Gibson -- Cali wasn't my thing. But I know a lot of good people there (and they chose it over good/prestigious alternatives).

From what I've read here, maybe your year didn't do well at Boies, but I know a good amount of 179 callbacks from my year. Enough to say that we shouldn't be scaring 179+ NY/Lit people away from the firm.
GDC LA was pretty selective last year but not purely on grades. Fit/ties/etc seemed more important there than other LA firms, at least in my experience and from talking to someone summering there.

Sounds right w/r/t Boies. I also got the sense with them that once you got the CB it was more fit-based. Definitely took a "type"
WheninLaw wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Where does Susman need to be? Grades needed to make it worth it?
Susman is a bit different, since (1) they don't interview a ton of people and (2) everyone on LR feels the need to interview there. In the past few years, you wanted to have them in your top 25 to get a screener.

You have a much better shot with ties to the office (especially for Houston and Seattle). Grades required can vary. While I know of a few 179/no LR's that have gotten CBs, the norm is K&E range.
Susman CBs are possible w/o ties, but keep in mind that the Houston office is by far the biggest summer class. I would also recommend thinking long and hard about whether you would actually want to work there (for similar reasons as thinking long and hard about doing, like, a Kozinski clerkship).
WheninLaw wrote:
mlady wrote:I apologize if I missed it when skimming the thread, but is anyone with experience in LA willing to take PMs about bidding? Thank you!
Yep, PM away.
Similarly willing to help via PM, but probably trust Wheninlaw more than me as my list was split between LA and other markets.

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by WheninLaw » Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:39 pm

I certainly didn't want to work at Susman out of enjoyment - just to get an extra 4 weeks of SA money :D

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:49 pm

Question regarding mass-mailing.
I have little below median grade and considering mass mailing NY firms that are not coming to OCI (any recommendations that I should def. include?)
I am wondering when I should be sending all the mails. I was considering this weekend. I was seeing mixed opinions (late July or as soon as grades are out).
When I am doing the mass mailing, how many firms do people usually send 10ish or like all 50 from the NALP excel sheet that OCS put up?
I was contemplating on this because I was debating how much I shoudl customize my cover letters.
Also, what is the process like once I hear from these mass-mailed firms? I am just starting to prep for my interviews and I didn't want to get on a Skype interview like a week after I send out my mass-mails when I am not so ready.
I am new to this process so much advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by Un Chien Andalou » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:13 pm

Damn admissions must have been pretty desperate for warm bodies in c/o 2017.

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by UnicornHunter » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Damn admissions must have been pretty desperate for warm bodies in c/o 2017.
Brave use of anon smartass.

(Posting to tag this thread.)

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:33 pm

Hi,
can someone check my bid list and give me some advice?
Info: no work experience, want to do transactional/corporate. strong preference for California Bay Area but have NY firms as safety. grade: 177.7 no journal.
bidding list:
Slots SA number
1. Davis Polk NY 42 134
2. Wilson Sonsini Palo Alto 40 36
3. Wilmerhale NY 21 19
4. MoFo SF/Palo Alto 21 20 SF
5. Allen Overy NY 15
6. Fenwick Mountain View 21 20
7. Cleary Gottlieb NY 42 98
8. OMM Menlo Park/SF 21 4-5
9. Simpson NY 63 93
10. Cadwalader NY 21 25
11 Goodwin Proctor silicon valley 6 7
12. Milbank NY 21 43
13. Gunderson Dettmer Silicon 21 5
14. Debevoise NY 63 66
15. Cooley Palo Alto/SF 42 7-8
16. Paul Weiss NY 42 128
17. Sherman Sterling NY 21 54
18. Ropes & Gray SF/Palo Alto 42 Palo Alto 3 SF 12
19. Proskauer Rose NY 21 39
20. Fried Frank NY 42 41
21. Mayer Brown Palo Alto/NY 7/11 NY 18
22. Dechert NY 21 24
22. Freshfields NY 20 24 all US
23. Shepard Mullin SF 21 5
24. White & Case NY 21 34
25. Skadden NY 42 108
Are there any firms that I should add/move up/move down? Thanks:)))

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Re: UChicago OCI 2015

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:38 pm

That is an EXTREMELY aggressive bid list for someone basically at median. You won't get Shearman that low. Probably not P Dubbs either. I don't think it's a bad idea to bid V10 NYC firms at median, but those should not be your backups in any shape or form.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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