UChicago OCI 2015 Forum

[beepboopbeep]

Howdy folks. There was no thread for this yet and we're getting close. Mostly a copy/paste from last year's OP, but with class sizes updated for 2015.

When posting a bidlist to get advice, please include the following information:

Form that would be helpful for future questions (you don't have to use it, but it'll help the people trying to help you). Under Misc put other info you think may be helpful for us--any idiosyncratic preference you may have. Under bidlist provide city of office / # of interview spots / expected incoming SAs (ex for New York/ 42 interviews / 30 incoming SAs: NY/42/30)

Grades:
URM/Female:
Work Exp:
Preferred Market:
Practice Area:
Misc:
Bid list:

Please post in this thread when you get a callback or ding, so that people know a firm has started giving callbacks or dings. This should, where possible, include the firm name, the office (e.g. LA, DC), the method of notification (phone call, email, owl), and your approximate GPA. If an invitation for a reception or dinner is given, please mention it in your post. It will also be helpful to future classes to post bid lists and what firms you successfully bid on and those you didn't.

Advice from people who already went through this process is welcome and appreciated, too. If you haven't yet seen it, this thread is a treasure trove of helpful advice: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=222167


Important dates:
Bidding:
Interview schedule released:
Orientation:
Interviews: August 10 - August 21

Previous Threads
2014: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=231959
2013: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=212871
2012: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=190405
2011: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=161763

Good luck everyone!

Notes:

Everyone who is considering Chicago should think carefully about whether they want to bid on Winston & Strawn after they screwed 2/3 of their summer class in the 2012 summer.

Firms by expected # of 2015 2L Summers, per NALP

Chicago (>5)

Kirkland & Ellis 41
Sidley Austin 28
Skadden, Arps 28
Winston & Strawn 25
Mayer Brown 23
Jones Day 17
Schiff Hardin 16
Kaye Scholer 15
Jenner & Block 15
Katten Muchin 15
Latham & Watkins 15
Baker & McKenzie 14
Reed Smith 9
K&L Gates 9
Ropes & Gray 9
Vedder Price 7
Foley & Lardner 7
Greenberg Traurig 7
Chapman & Cutler 6
Seyfarth Shaw 5

New York (>10)

DPW (firmwide) 134
Paul Weiss 128
Skadden, Arps 108
Sullivan & Cromwell (firmwide) 108
Cravath (firmwide) 100
Cleary Gottlieb 98
Simpson Thacher 93
Willkie Farr 68
Debevoise & Plimpton 66
Shearman & Sterling 54
Kirkland & Ellis 54
Latham & Watkins 47
Weil Gotshal (2014) 46
Ropes & Gray 45
Milbank 43
Fried Frank 41
Proskauer Rose 39
White & Case 34
Wachtell Lipton 32
Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher 29
Sidley Austin 28
Cadwalader 25
Dechert 24
Clifford Chance 22
Linklaters 20
WilmerHale 19
Mayer Brown 18
Jones Day 18
O'Melveny 16
Winston 15
Kaye Scholer 14
Pillsbury 12
hogan lovells 11
MoFo 11
Curtis Mallet 10
Katten Muchin 10

DC (>5, plus others who come to our OCI)

Covington 76
Williams & Connolly 37
hogan lovells 31
Latham 29
Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher 29
WilmerHale 24
Jones Day 24
Skadden Arps 24
Cleary Gottlieb 22
Arnold & Porter 16
Sidley Austin 15
Venable 15
Baker Botts 15
White & Case 14
Steptoe & Johnson (2014) 13
Paul Weiss 13
Akin Gump 11
Pillsbury Winthrop 11
O'Melveny 11
K&L Gates 10
Foley & Lardner 10
Finnegan, Henderson 9
Kirkland & Ellis 9
Crowell & Moring 7
Sterne, Kessler 7
Jenner & Block 7
Morgan, Lewis 6
Sheppard Mullin 4
Harris Wiltshire 3
Axinn Veltrop 1

LA (>5)

Munger Tolles (2014) 26
Skadden Arps 22
Gibson Dunn 22
Irell & Manella (firmwide) 19
Latham & Watkins 18
O'Melveny 12
Paul Hastings (2014) 12
Kirkland & Ellis 11
Milbank 9
O'Melveny Century City 9
Manatt Phelps 8
Sidley Austin 7
Proskauer Rose 7
Akin Gump 7
Sheppard Mullin 6
Winston & Strawn 6
Morgan Lewis 5

[lawlschool1l]

delete

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for making this thread B^3

Question: At what point is it okay to not submit any bids for NY? I really don't want to work there but would of course prefer NY over no employment at all.

I would say at no point is it okay. If you're above a 180 it's much less of a risk, but if you're bidding DC and Chicago, or some other combination of difficult markets, it's still a risk. You just don't know enough about your interview skills and where the rest of your class is bidding until it's too late. If you can't get comfortable bidding a primary market and NYC as a backup then you need to do some thinking about where you really want to work and what outcomes you're comfortable with. I am going to guess that much of the advice you'll receive from people who have gone through the process will prefer you getting an offer at an NYC firm over nothing.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for making this thread B^3

Question: At what point is it okay to not submit any bids for NY? I really don't want to work there but would of course prefer NY over no employment at all.

I would say at no point is it okay. If you're above a 180 it's much less of a risk, but if you're bidding DC and Chicago, or some other combination of difficult markets, it's still a risk. You just don't know enough about your interview skills and where the rest of your class is bidding until it's too late. If you can't get comfortable bidding a primary market and NYC as a backup then you need to do some thinking about where you really want to work and what outcomes you're comfortable with. I am going to guess that much of the advice you'll receive from people who have gone through the process will prefer you getting an offer at an NYC firm over nothing.

I think this is right, but I also regret spending as many bids on NY as I did last year--was 180+/LR, wanted secondary markets, and ended up missing some firms in those markets because of safety bids spent on NY. There's still obviously the potential that you'll get dinged from places even with great grades, but I was also surprised at how crappy some of my interviews were that lead to offers. I think if you can self-evaluate as not horrifyingly awkward and are K&E-level grades or close to it, can probably cut the NY bids.

Then again I don't really trust the most horrifyingly awkward kids in our school to be able to recognize that about themselves. So maybe just bid some NY either way.

[Anonymous User]

Probably going to be in the low 177 range. Want Chicago. Am I screwed?

[Anonymous User]

Probably going to be in the low 177 range. Want Chicago. Am I screwed?

Depends on a whole heck of a lot more than just your gpa-interview skills, resume, personality, where your class bids, etc. People get Chicago from median every year but I would guess more don't. You must use NYC as a heavy backup. Hustle and speak with as many Chicago attorneys as you can between now and OCI. Take them out to coffee or lunch or speak over the phone. Practice interviewing and honing the narrative of your life. And get comfortable with potentially missing out on Chicago.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for making this thread B^3

Question: At what point is it okay to not submit any bids for NY? I really don't want to work there but would of course prefer NY over no employment at all.

I would say at no point is it okay. If you're above a 180 it's much less of a risk, but if you're bidding DC and Chicago, or some other combination of difficult markets, it's still a risk. You just don't know enough about your interview skills and where the rest of your class is bidding until it's too late. If you can't get comfortable bidding a primary market and NYC as a backup then you need to do some thinking about where you really want to work and what outcomes you're comfortable with. I am going to guess that much of the advice you'll receive from people who have gone through the process will prefer you getting an offer at an NYC firm over nothing.

I think this is right, but I also regret spending as many bids on NY as I did last year--was 180+/LR, wanted secondary markets, and ended up missing some firms in those markets because of safety bids spent on NY. There's still obviously the potential that you'll get dinged from places even with great grades, but I was also surprised at how crappy some of my interviews were that lead to offers. I think if you can self-evaluate as not horrifyingly awkward and are K&E-level grades or close to it, can probably cut the NY bids.

Then again I don't really trust the most horrifyingly awkward kids in our school to be able to recognize that about themselves. So maybe just bid some NY either way.

If you're K&E like you were, then do whatever you want. But in general it's probably not a good idea to bid on twelve markets.

[2014]

Probably going to be in the low 177 range. Want Chicago. Am I screwed?

You could be fine but you are likely to have 1-2 offers and so to the extent you have specific practice group or culture interests you aren't going to be able to choose between those things. Above advice is solid, definitely throw in NY safeties.

To all - Happy to look at bid lists later on, I'm extremely competent at Chi and NY and inept at all other markets but like my own voice enough to spew an opinion on those anyway.

[Rahviveh]

I'm happy to answer questions via pm since it seems like a few of our resident 16ers have gone missing. I can answer about NY or LA. I will say though that 99% of what you need to know is in last years thread, which was quite hefty

[beepboopbeep]

Same, feel free to PM about DC/LA bidlists once that whole thing rolls around. No real idea about NY/Chi ones. IMO there's a limit to what you can get from past years' threads but def look there first for the obvious stuff (do I need to bid K&E Chi really high? yes).

I don't really know what happened to teh rest of the 2016ers, guess we're the only nerds left

[eazye]

Is it bad form to reach out to firms we're interested in if we're in the target city for the summer, even if they're coming to OCI?

FWIW, first 2 batches of grades in 179 range, realize this is probably moot until we get 3rd quarter back next week.

[Snuffles1]

I can also answer PMs about LA/Chicago. I suppose it comes with the caveat that I had a couple unusual softs, but to be honest neither TLS nor OCS thought those softs would matter much (although everyone I interviewed with *really* liked them). I think the two biggest things to think of, assuming somewhat average grades and average softs, are honest assessments of (1) your appetite for risk, and (2) -- as Beep said -- your interviewing skills.

I'll be honest, I played it riskier than TLS told me to (basically no NYC bids) but not as risky as some of my friends did (no DC/SF). Although there's always hindsight bias, I do think a big part of it was being neither overconfident nor paranoid. As for (2)... maybe harder to judge if you're K-JD (which I was not) but I also made the choice to not do the practice interviews with OCS because I felt like interviewing was one of my strengths and I didn't want them to steer me wrong. (And I felt they would steer me wrong after having practicing lawyers look at my resumes and cover letters and asking what the hell I thought I was doing.)

[Rahviveh]

Is it bad form to reach out to firms we're interested in if we're in the target city for the summer, even if they're coming to OCI?

FWIW, first 2 batches of grades in 179 range, realize this is probably moot until we get 3rd quarter back next week.

Yes, this is exactly what you should be doing and a way to get an early offer

[eazye]

Is it bad form to reach out to firms we're interested in if we're in the target city for the summer, even if they're coming to OCI?

FWIW, first 2 batches of grades in 179 range, realize this is probably moot until we get 3rd quarter back next week.

Yes, this is exactly what you should be doing and a way to get an early offer

Thanks a lot. Appreciate it!

[Anonymous User]

NPH here. Mods killed my account after OCI last year. Seems like lots of people are willing to take questions and review lists so I don't see a need to out myself yet. To the extent people aren't being helped, post in either thread and I'll PM you.

Good luck everyone. Lots of good advice in the other thread if there are OCI gunners who want to start networking now.

[WheninLaw]

Also of course happy to help. I did SF/SV/LA with a mix of other "elite" litigation firms. Had LR with a 180+, so more experienced in those areas.

edit: I forgot to add the most important thing about OCI. Are you ready? Don't be assholes to each other. PLEASE be kind to your classmates.

[Crowing]

I bid Chi/NY so feel free to PM me with any questions about those markets.

[Robb]

I did screeners for almost everywhere... lol. Chi/NY/Denver/SV/SF/DC/Miami. I also did some decent amount of job hunting in Alabama. I think I'll be most useful for NY and Denver people, though, as well as people interested in lit.

General advice I would have is:

(1) not to take general advice given on here by anyone too seriously since most of it will vary based on your particular situation (for example, whether you are K&E vs bottom 10%, or social butterfly vs kind of awkward) and people tend to extrapolate their own experiences even if they might not be generally applicable;

(2) lit focused people should probably not mention their lit focus unless they're interviewing with firms like Boies or Paul Weiss, or if you do probably be sure to emphasize that you're open to other options;

(3) not to bid as many markets as I did. Stick to 2, at most 3, with at least one of those being a major market (read: NY);

(4) start doing your research now, people say there are not many differences among big firms but there really are, and OCI is pretty exhausting, at least, or especially, for us introverts... get in touch with the 2L's on the who worked where list who are in the firms you might want to work at now... and ask them about their experiences. I have several friends who are working a ton, staying super late over the summer, and several friends who notice the associates at their firm are always in on weekends. I stopped in two weekends to grab stuff here, and there are only usually 1 or 2 associates on my floor in on weekends (though they are probably working from home-but it is good to know that people have that option). On the other hand, associates (but not summers) regularly stay pretty late (9-10PM) here. Most associates seem to generally enjoy their job here. There doesn't seem to be any one particular type of person here (indeed, during orientation they tried to sell this aspect of the firm, albeit in the work product setting). I have no idea if this is true of other firms. My associate mentor who is currently on vacation has told me that when he is on vacation he is never bothered (and he is very honest about the downsides of associate life, so I trust him on it). This is the kind of stuff you can learn talking to current 2L's that you can't just read on vault, and is the kind of stuff that might matter to you, or it might now. But really, all the top firms, with the exception of Boies and Wachtell, are identical in terms of pay, so these are the things that really should matter in terms of making your decisions. And, as a bonus, in almost every callback I had I was asked whether I had spoken to any previous summer associates about their experiences there, who it was, and what they had to say (obviously if this is asked, the previous summer had nothing but good things to say, + specific examples, both for your sake and theirs).

Feel free to shoot me a PM.

[skers]

I bid Chi/NY so feel free to PM me with any questions about those markets.

[Anonymous User]

(4) start doing your research now, people say there are not many differences among big firms but there really are, and OCI is pretty exhausting, at least, or especially, for us introverts... get in touch with the 2L's on the who worked where list who are in the firms you might want to work at now... and ask them about their experiences. I have several friends who are working a ton, staying super late over the summer, and several friends who notice the associates at their firm are always in on weekends. I stopped in two weekends to grab stuff here, and there are only usually 1 or 2 associates on my floor in on weekends (though they are probably working from home-but it is good to know that people have that option). On the other hand, associates (but not summers) regularly stay pretty late (9-10PM) here. Most associates seem to generally enjoy their job here. There doesn't seem to be any one particular type of person here (indeed, during orientation they tried to sell this aspect of the firm, albeit in the work product setting). I have no idea if this is true of other firms. My associate mentor who is currently on vacation has told me that when he is on vacation he is never bothered (and he is very honest about the downsides of associate life, so I trust him on it). This is the kind of stuff you can learn talking to current 2L's that you can't just read on vault, and is the kind of stuff that might matter to you, or it might now. But really, all the top firms, with the exception of Boies and Wachtell, are identical in terms of pay, so these are the things that really should matter in terms of making your decisions. And, as a bonus, in almost every callback I had I was asked whether I had spoken to any previous summer associates about their experiences there, who it was, and what they had to say (obviously if this is asked, the previous summer had nothing but good things to say, + specific examples, both for your sake and theirs).

Feel free to shoot me a PM.

This is really bad advice for the majority of people. Remember that while most firms pay the same, the expected earnings / satisfaction over your career vary significantly from more prestigious firms to less prestigious firms. Believe it or not, as a practicing lawyer you WANT to be working longer hours because that means your firm / practice group is busy and you're getting the opportunity to develop skills and make connections. There is nothing worse - both because it's freaking scary re: job security and because it means that you're not learning - than those months or even (gasp) years when your whole floor is leaving at 6:30PM. And there has been a big separation in activity levels over the last 2-3 years between the very top firms and the rest of the biglaw pack.

This isn't limited to folks who just want to work for 3 years in biglaw to pay off debt and then want to step off into an in house position. Not all in house positions are created equal, both in terms of pay and quality of work. Soul crushing compliance work at a big bank is not the same as being associate general counsel at a growth company. Non-profits (excluding public interest) are just as smitten with prestige as the rest of the profession - that cool job at an NGO in Geneva is a heck of a lot easier to get from the firm with the fancier name.

Of course, if you want to stay in biglaw long term, its a hell of a lot easier to lateral down than to lateral up.

There is no meaningful difference between firms in terms of QOL - or put differently, to the extent there is a difference, the other factors that play into how unpleasant your job is (dynamics of your practice group, the folks you sit next to and whether you like grabbing lunch with them, whether you get put on a crazy case or a sane one, whether you get staffed with a crazy partner or a sane one, etc.) dwarf firm-to-firm differences, with very few exceptions. Once you are a few years out, this becomes patently obvious - who seems happy and who is openly miserable is wackily random and uncorrelated with the firms you whispered about as being sweatshops or safe havens.

When you are picking a firm, pick the firm that will put you in the best spot in 10 years or 20 years. Don't chase unicorns like the magical firm where you have no weekend work or everyone leaves at 7 and yet there's enough work that they don't push people out early.

[Rahviveh]

(4) start doing your research now, people say there are not many differences among big firms but there really are, and OCI is pretty exhausting, at least, or especially, for us introverts... get in touch with the 2L's on the who worked where list who are in the firms you might want to work at now... and ask them about their experiences. I have several friends who are working a ton, staying super late over the summer, and several friends who notice the associates at their firm are always in on weekends. I stopped in two weekends to grab stuff here, and there are only usually 1 or 2 associates on my floor in on weekends (though they are probably working from home-but it is good to know that people have that option). On the other hand, associates (but not summers) regularly stay pretty late (9-10PM) here. Most associates seem to generally enjoy their job here. There doesn't seem to be any one particular type of person here (indeed, during orientation they tried to sell this aspect of the firm, albeit in the work product setting). I have no idea if this is true of other firms. My associate mentor who is currently on vacation has told me that when he is on vacation he is never bothered (and he is very honest about the downsides of associate life, so I trust him on it). This is the kind of stuff you can learn talking to current 2L's that you can't just read on vault, and is the kind of stuff that might matter to you, or it might now. But really, all the top firms, with the exception of Boies and Wachtell, are identical in terms of pay, so these are the things that really should matter in terms of making your decisions. And, as a bonus, in almost every callback I had I was asked whether I had spoken to any previous summer associates about their experiences there, who it was, and what they had to say (obviously if this is asked, the previous summer had nothing but good things to say, + specific examples, both for your sake and theirs).

Feel free to shoot me a PM.

This is really bad advice for the majority of people. Remember that while most firms pay the same, the expected earnings / satisfaction over your career vary significantly from more prestigious firms to less prestigious firms. Believe it or not, as a practicing lawyer you WANT to be working longer hours because that means your firm / practice group is busy and you're getting the opportunity to develop skills and make connections. There is nothing worse - both because it's freaking scary re: job security and because it means that you're not learning - than those months or even (gasp) years when your whole floor is leaving at 6:30PM. And there has been a big separation in activity levels over the last 2-3 years between the very top firms and the rest of the biglaw pack.

This isn't limited to folks who just want to work for 3 years in biglaw to pay off debt and then want to step off into an in house position. Not all in house positions are created equal, both in terms of pay and quality of work. Soul crushing compliance work at a big bank is not the same as being associate general counsel at a growth company. Non-profits (excluding public interest) are just as smitten with prestige as the rest of the profession - that cool job at an NGO in Geneva is a heck of a lot easier to get from the firm with the fancier name.

Of course, if you want to stay in biglaw long term, its a hell of a lot easier to lateral down than to lateral up.

There is no meaningful difference between firms in terms of QOL - or put differently, to the extent there is a difference, the other factors that play into how unpleasant your job is (dynamics of your practice group, the folks you sit next to and whether you like grabbing lunch with them, whether you get put on a crazy case or a sane one, whether you get staffed with a crazy partner or a sane one, etc.) dwarf firm-to-firm differences, with very few exceptions. Once you are a few years out, this becomes patently obvious - who seems happy and who is openly miserable is wackily random and uncorrelated with the firms you whispered about as being sweatshops or safe havens.

When you are picking a firm, pick the firm that will put you in the best spot in 10 years or 20 years. Don't chase unicorns like the magical firm where you have no weekend work or everyone leaves at 7 and yet there's enough work that they don't push people out early.

I didn't want to pick a fight but since you started it, I couldn't agree more. Listening to 2Ls opinions about life at their summer firms is an exceptionally stupid thing to do. Many will either be dishonest or delusional About how life is.

When you're talking to rising 3ls you are doing so to get fodder for interviews so you can get the job. You are not talking to them to choose between firms, when that time comes

[Robb]

(4) start doing your research now, people say there are not many differences among big firms but there really are, and OCI is pretty exhausting, at least, or especially, for us introverts... get in touch with the 2L's on the who worked where list who are in the firms you might want to work at now... and ask them about their experiences. I have several friends who are working a ton, staying super late over the summer, and several friends who notice the associates at their firm are always in on weekends. I stopped in two weekends to grab stuff here, and there are only usually 1 or 2 associates on my floor in on weekends (though they are probably working from home-but it is good to know that people have that option). On the other hand, associates (but not summers) regularly stay pretty late (9-10PM) here. Most associates seem to generally enjoy their job here. There doesn't seem to be any one particular type of person here (indeed, during orientation they tried to sell this aspect of the firm, albeit in the work product setting). I have no idea if this is true of other firms. My associate mentor who is currently on vacation has told me that when he is on vacation he is never bothered (and he is very honest about the downsides of associate life, so I trust him on it). This is the kind of stuff you can learn talking to current 2L's that you can't just read on vault, and is the kind of stuff that might matter to you, or it might now. But really, all the top firms, with the exception of Boies and Wachtell, are identical in terms of pay, so these are the things that really should matter in terms of making your decisions. And, as a bonus, in almost every callback I had I was asked whether I had spoken to any previous summer associates about their experiences there, who it was, and what they had to say (obviously if this is asked, the previous summer had nothing but good things to say, + specific examples, both for your sake and theirs).

Feel free to shoot me a PM.

This is really bad advice for the majority of people. Remember that while most firms pay the same, the expected earnings / satisfaction over your career vary significantly from more prestigious firms to less prestigious firms. Believe it or not, as a practicing lawyer you WANT to be working longer hours because that means your firm / practice group is busy and you're getting the opportunity to develop skills and make connections. There is nothing worse - both because it's freaking scary re: job security and because it means that you're not learning - than those months or even (gasp) years when your whole floor is leaving at 6:30PM. And there has been a big separation in activity levels over the last 2-3 years between the very top firms and the rest of the biglaw pack.

This isn't limited to folks who just want to work for 3 years in biglaw to pay off debt and then want to step off into an in house position. Not all in house positions are created equal, both in terms of pay and quality of work. Soul crushing compliance work at a big bank is not the same as being associate general counsel at a growth company. Non-profits (excluding public interest) are just as smitten with prestige as the rest of the profession - that cool job at an NGO in Geneva is a heck of a lot easier to get from the firm with the fancier name.

Of course, if you want to stay in biglaw long term, its a hell of a lot easier to lateral down than to lateral up.

There is no meaningful difference between firms in terms of QOL - or put differently, to the extent there is a difference, the other factors that play into how unpleasant your job is (dynamics of your practice group, the folks you sit next to and whether you like grabbing lunch with them, whether you get put on a crazy case or a sane one, whether you get staffed with a crazy partner or a sane one, etc.) dwarf firm-to-firm differences, with very few exceptions. Once you are a few years out, this becomes patently obvious - who seems happy and who is openly miserable is wackily random and uncorrelated with the firms you whispered about as being sweatshops or safe havens.

When you are picking a firm, pick the firm that will put you in the best spot in 10 years or 20 years. Don't chase unicorns like the magical firm where you have no weekend work or everyone leaves at 7 and yet there's enough work that they don't push people out early.

Perhaps you're right, obviously I'm still in law school... hell, I'm still a summer associate. But by no means was I saying to "chase unicorns like the magical firm where you have no weekend work." But it certainly makes sense to prioritize a firm where you can work from home on weekends, as opposed to the firm in the next building over where you have to come in physically every weekend, if that is something that matters to you (as it does to me). No place is perfect, but there are real, meaningful, differences, that can be learned from speaking to current summers. And if nothing else, the most important part is that it gives you something to talk about during an interview to help get the job.

[Robb]

I didn't want to pick a fight but since you started it, I couldn't agree more. Listening to 2Ls opinions about life at their summer firms is an exceptionally stupid thing to do. Many will either be dishonest or delusional About how life is.

When you're talking to rising 3ls you are doing so to get fodder for interviews so you can get the job. You are not talking to them to choose between firms, when that time comes

TLS does this so much-everything is either perfect or useless. "lawschoolpredictor is useless, use mylsn" is said all the time, but it's a ridiculous statement. Lawschoolpredictor is not useless, in fact, it's very useful. But you have to take it for what it's worth.

Same thing here. It's not "exceptionally stupid". In fact, I don't even know what that means in context. After all, it certainly won't hurt you, all the firms pay the same, and it can be useful. As to future job prospects, the vast majority of people don't expect to be in biglaw a few years down the line anyway. Key, though, is you can only make of it what it's worth, which is something. Not everything, but not nothing.

[Rahviveh]

I didn't want to pick a fight but since you started it, I couldn't agree more. Listening to 2Ls opinions about life at their summer firms is an exceptionally stupid thing to do. Many will either be dishonest or delusional About how life is.

When you're talking to rising 3ls you are doing so to get fodder for interviews so you can get the job. You are not talking to them to choose between firms, when that time comes

TLS does this so much-everything is either perfect or useless. "lawschoolpredictor is useless, use mylsn" is said all the time, but it's a ridiculous statement. Lawschoolpredictor is not useless, in fact, it's very useful. But you have to take it for what it's worth.

Same thing here. It's not "exceptionally stupid". In fact, I don't even know what that means in context. After all, it certainly won't hurt you, all the firms pay the same, and it can be useful. As to future job prospects, the vast majority of people don't expect to be in biglaw a few years down the line anyway. Key, though, is you can only make of it what it's worth, which is something. Not everything, but not nothing.

There are many other tangible, quantifiable things that are better to base your decision on. Facetime policies are not a firmwide thing and are gonna vary from partner to partner. You don't know who you're going to work with until the time comes. I don't know why law people are so bad when it comes to relying on anecdotal evidence

[Robb]

I didn't want to pick a fight but since you started it, I couldn't agree more. Listening to 2Ls opinions about life at their summer firms is an exceptionally stupid thing to do. Many will either be dishonest or delusional About how life is.

When you're talking to rising 3ls you are doing so to get fodder for interviews so you can get the job. You are not talking to them to choose between firms, when that time comes

TLS does this so much-everything is either perfect or useless. "lawschoolpredictor is useless, use mylsn" is said all the time, but it's a ridiculous statement. Lawschoolpredictor is not useless, in fact, it's very useful. But you have to take it for what it's worth.

Same thing here. It's not "exceptionally stupid". In fact, I don't even know what that means in context. After all, it certainly won't hurt you, all the firms pay the same, and it can be useful. As to future job prospects, the vast majority of people don't expect to be in biglaw a few years down the line anyway. Key, though, is you can only make of it what it's worth, which is something. Not everything, but not nothing.

There are many other tangible, quantifiable things that are better to base your decision on. Facetime policies are not a firmwide thing and are gonna vary from partner to partner. You don't know who you're going to work with until the time comes. I don't know why law people are so bad when it comes to relying on anecdotal evidence

I'm curious about what tangible, quantifiable things you're talking about, because there really aren't that many that I know of. In fact, I can think of hardly any quantitative reason to choose between most of the big firms.

Anecdotal evidence can certainly be useful. The anecdotal experience that, at my firm, over three floors with 100 attorneys each, there were 2 associates in on one Saturday afternoon, and 1 associate in on another Saturday afternoon, is probably fairly reliable in terms of how well it represents what you can expect at the firm (at least over the summer months, from what I understand it tends to be more hectic in the non-summer months). The problem with anecdotal evidence arises when you take a single datapoint that you have no reason to think is representative and try to extrapolate from it. (For example, saying one person with a 3.9 GPA and 174 LSAT score was rejected for admission at Harvard. You learn something from that, but not very much. But if I tell you that 90% of the 100 people who applied with those number were admitted, that anecdotal evidence becomes useful statistic evidence.)