Internship with Prosecutor or Public Defender? Forum

[kjaefh3]

Which one would you choose? Why?

[GOATlawman]

PD because prosecutors scum

[gmail]

Prosecutor, because having the largest prison population in the world is what makes America so great.

[kjaefh3]

Prosecutor, because having the largest prison population in the world (in absolute and per capita terms) is what makes America so great.

What are the benefits of interning with a Prosecutor over a PD (and vice versa)?

[Anonymous User]

Prosecutor. Cuz somebody has to do it and if you have any moral fiber then you'll do more good than the vast amount of current prosecutors out there.

[Ron Don Volante]

If you're questioning it I'd urge prosecutor. The more compassionate, thoughtful people (which I'd assume describes you if you're considering the PD track) we can get to be on that side of the equation, the better.

[Anonymous User]

What fires you up: the bill of rights (PD), or a state's criminal code (prosecutor)?

[GOATlawman]

Prosecutor, because having the largest prison population in the world (in absolute and per capita terms) is what makes America so great.

What are the benefits of interning with a Prosecutor over a PD (and vice versa)?

bro. the #1 difference is wtf do you want to do. how do you not have a feeling one way or the other??? Every PD I know, and most of the DAs, would never work for the other side

DAs are sometimes paid a little better for some stupid reason

[CaptainLeela]

Welcome to TLS

[Anonymous User]

I was interested in either, too. I want to work for a better system, and to litigate because it's FUN (seriously), and I could do that on either side. I'm a DA and I want everyone to have a quality, just prosecutor, and a quality, ethical defense attorney. Nothing pisses me off more than defendants whose lawyers are unprepared, ripping them off, don't care, or give them bad advice.

I've been at it a year, and here's my list of pro-DA perks:
1) No clients. I cannot stress this enough. Is it rewarding to work on People's behalf and help them out? Yup. But I also hear attorneys complain when their clients are off their rocker, out of control, won't take good advice, or are sociopaths. Not every PD client is the stereotypical innocent person or good person caught up in the big bad justice system. Both DAs and PDs have to deal with people in crisis and nerves, feelings, fears, etc., but I deal with victims a lot less than PDs deal with defendants overall. I'm good with people, but not everyone is. I work in a pretty independent office, so there is something nice about my workload being my own little universe where I have discretion to do whatever I think is fair; defense attorneys are going to have to explain everything to their client and justify their advice and trial strategy. One of those may appeal to you more than the other, and that's okay. (I didn't realize how much I liked not having "clients" until I didn't. Also I don't have to bill ... huzzah!)
2) Going to scenes/searches is fun.
3) Variety. I get to deal with all the defense attorneys, private and PD, as well as pro se defendants. My PDs get to deal with me, me, and me. So far we've all had a good work rapport, but if someone in the future can't stand me or get along with me, they're stuck with me. There's private attorneys I can't stand but I deal with them 3% of my time so it's not the end of the world.
4) I love my job.

Stuff that's a wash:
1) Pay. Both are paid too little, but in most places you're more or less the same.
2) Feel goodery. PDs feel good when they get a good result for their client, whatever that may be. I feel good when I get a good result for the victim/community/system, shoot, even the defendant. PD Kool-Aid drinkers may have trouble believing this, but I spend a ton of time trying to get People into treatment when that's the real issue, and give lots of what I colloquially refer to as "get your shit together" pleas (e.g., deferreds where you just need to stop getting into bar fights). Obviously, to many people the other side is anathema, but to middle-ground we need a system but a good system types, there'll be good and bad either way. PDs will occasionally get someone out of custody who goes home and beats up their girlfriend again, or worse. DAs will occasionally be too harsh, or convict an innocent person in good faith. Thems the breaks.
3) Case loads. All too high. My PD maybe represents 25% of my misdo cases. She spends more time per case (that pleads out), but I still have 100% of my cases ...
4) Training, opportunity for advancement, trial experience, etc.

Pro-PD/DA Cons
1) DAs have to stick with the discovered facts. PDs get to make shit up at trial.
2) Dress code. I'm stuck in a suit everyday and nylons are required; my newer PDs wear suits by choice but its not required. Some of the lifer PDs dress like business casual hobos. Like the shit from the Orange is the New Black dress for success fashion show. (I'm not joking, but I'm jealous.)
3) Budget. Our PDs have state cars, iPads, and access to investigators even on misdos/jailable petty offenses. I have none of those things.
4) People get weird with me in public, especially in a small county. I saw 4 defendants at the grocery store at lunch. I'm going to trial against the bartender/owner of my favorite local brewery. That blows.
5) Cops call me at 3 a.m. when they need something.

Notes: I'm in an open-file discovery state where marijuana is legal, currently live in a super white part of the country (while there is racism here for sure, there's basically no one for it to negatively effect ... ), and my office could give a rats ass about illegal drug "use" ... you're not even going to jail for that if you're not dealing or hurting anybody. I would probably feel differently about my job if those things weren't true.

[XxSpyKEx]

DAs are sometimes paid a little better for some stupid reason

People seems value DAs a lot more than PDs, for some reason. For example, long-term DAs frequently become judges; whereas, PDs never seem to win judicial elections. Even on the federal side, your odds of getting nominated by the president and confirmed by the senate are a lot higher as an AUSA than an AFPD (although, the federal bench is much more balanced than local benches that are based off judicial elections).

[Anonymous User]

DAs are sometimes paid a little better for some stupid reason

People seems value DAs a lot more than PDs, for some reason. For example, long-term DAs frequently become judges; whereas, PDs never seem to win judicial elections. Even on the federal side, your odds of getting nominated by the president and confirmed by the senate are a lot higher as an AUSA than an AFPD (although, the federal bench is much more balanced than local benches that are based off judicial elections).

True. There is the great lay misconception that any mope can waltz into a PD job when they couldn't get hired anywhere else. Only lawyers know that's not true.

[Anonymous User]

I would also add that if you're in any way ambivalent (and considering both after law school), PD is a safer bet. Once you go prosecutor, it's extremely difficult to convince a PD's office to hire you: especially right out of law school. Whereas you definitely get more leeway going from PD to prosecution. That said, if you're leaning one way or the other as far as post-grad employment goes, intern at that place. It's always much easier not to have to explain why you decided to change sides.

And I'll second the comment that some PDs eventually go prosecution and vice versa. This was especially the case at one place I worked where a change in the DA for the local office came with a change in prosecutorial approach that led several prosecutors to either go to other offices, or just to switch to defense. But again, that's slightly (if not entirely) different than "I interned at the district attorney's office and realized I wanted to help defendants instead so now I'm applying for an entry level job at your PD's office just one year later." Food for thought.

[anon sequitur]

If you're competitive, winning is important to you, for God's sake, don't be a prosecutor. The bad prosecutors I've been exposed to are the ones who get off on winning, racking up convictions, wielding the power of the State for righteousness, etc. In my jurisdiction, this is a pretty small minority, thankfully.

If you have a cool, detached temperament, think criminal law is inherently interesting, like abstract arguments about justice but don't take things personally, and don't mind admitting when your position is weak, you might make a good prosecutor.

[XxSpyKEx]

If you're competitive, winning is important to you, for God's sake, don't be a prosecutor.

Actually, I would think that if winning is important to you, becoming a prosecutor makes more sense. Prosecutors almost always win their cases. You don't even need to be good at being an attorney to win as a prosecutor lol.

[mw115]

I would also add that if you're in any way ambivalent (and considering both after law school), PD is a safer bet. Once you go prosecutor, it's extremely difficult to convince a PD's office to hire you: especially right out of law school. Whereas you definitely get more leeway going from PD to prosecution. That said, if you're leaning one way or the other as far as post-grad employment goes, intern at that place. It's always much easier not to have to explain why you decided to change sides.

And I'll second the comment that some PDs eventually go prosecution and vice versa. This was especially the case at one place I worked where a change in the DA for the local office came with a change in prosecutorial approach that led several prosecutors to either go to other offices, or just to switch to defense. But again, that's slightly (if not entirely) different than "I interned at the district attorney's office and realized I wanted to help defendants instead so now I'm applying for an entry level job at your PD's office just one year later." Food for thought.

Be careful with this advice. Find out the local trends. I know it's true in some parts of the country, but in others (think more red state) once you go PD you will have a very hard time switching. Anecdotal, but a buddy of mine who was applying for a civil AUSA job got grilled for nearly 15 mins on work he'd done with an innocence project pro bono.

[mw115]

Also, re: PDs not getting elected judges, I don't think it's so much because people think anyone can get a PD job, as much as it's because of the (totally unfair) lay perception that PDs are there to set criminals free to wander the streets and continue committing crimes. PDs definitely get a bad rap with the public that they totally don't deserve.

I'll push back a little on this. I do think, in general, PDs would be less deferential to the State as judges and most voters would prefer judges that are more deferential to the State.

[mw115]

One final thing. If you go the PD route, you have to be comfortable with representing some very guilty, very bad people. For a lot of people that's NBD. Personally, I could never get over it.

[sublime]

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