Making a career out of prosecuting at the local level Forum

[Young Marino]

I would really appreciate some insight from current and former ADAs on this. I came to law school wanting to be a prosecutor for my local office becuase there is something about serving the community I was born and raised in that is very appealing to me. However, there seems to be a lot of posters here that say how rare it is to make a career out of prosecuting (I'd love to do this). Is it because of the pay? I know ADAs don't make much coming out of school but of the prosecutors in my desired office that have been there for 8-10 years, almost all of them are making $65k-$75k. Is it worth it?

[encore1101]

It obviously depends on where you're working, but I think the pay, the hours, better job opportunities, and the bottle neck of upper level positions would be the reason why most people go elsewhere.

[darth lulz]

these are probably the questions you should have asked before you enrolled at a tttt w/ stips to become a prosecutor hur dur

[chem!]

these are probably the questions you should have asked before you enrolled at a tttt w/ stips to become a prosecutor hur dur

Be helpful or be quiet. Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

I'd love to hear more about this as well.

[20141023]

.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Not rad lulz.

[Young Marino]

What I struggle with the most is that between a rock and a hard place feeling. On one hand, I know I would absolutely love prosecuting and from what I've seen/heard while I was interning there, the work life balance is pretty good at my desired office. Of course, there's the occasional 55-60 hr work week but for the most part it's a 45-50 hr a week gig. On the other hand, I don't know if I can see myself trying to support a family with a mortgage student loan debt to pay off (albeit not as much as many other attorneys), probably a car payment, saving on the side and regular COL expenses on a $65k-$75k annual salary ten years into my career. Sure, the wife makes a decent sum, by then probably as much as I'll be making if not more but would it really be enough? $65k was the median starting salary for grads at my school for the class of 2013 in the private sector (near 60 percent employment score on lst and has a good reputation in the local reigon) and ten years out, they're probably making a lot more than that. I really don't know if I'd be interested in anything as much as prosecuting but then again, I haven't really looked. I have a good relationship with a patent attorney (alum of my UG and a family member of a good friend) and a real-estate attorney (alum of my LS) and both make really good money. May be I should take them out for lunch over winter break and talk to them about their area of law and what advice they could give me on my situation?

[mw115]

Most prosecutors I know are career prosecutors. In my office (albeit USAO, but must came from DA's offices), all but 3 of 15 are career prosecutors. I also get the feeling that most of the turnover is due to politics.

Where is your desired DA's office?

I'm from Texas and I can't think of any major populated area in this state where ADA's are making less than $75k after 10 years. If you're living in some exurban or rural area (the places where career prosecutors are making under $75k after 10 years), COL/mortgage won't be a big deal (have a buddy in rural OK who just bought a house for $50k). Also, student loan payments can't be more than a % of your salary and you'll get help paying it off. And buy used cars. The amount of fun you have in your job will make up for your lack of new model autos.

[Young Marino]

Most prosecutors I know are career prosecutors. In my office (albeit USAO, but must came from DA's offices), all but 3 of 15 are career prosecutors. I also get the feeling that most of the turnover is due to politics.

Where is your desired DA's office?

I'm from Texas and I can't think of any major populated area in this state where ADA's are making less than $75k after 10 years. If you're living in some exurban or rural area (the places where career prosecutors are making under $75k after 10 years), COL/mortgage won't be a big deal (have a buddy in rural OK who just bought a house for $50k). Also, student loan payments can't be more than a % of your salary and you'll get help paying it off. And buy used cars. The amount of fun you have in your job will make up for your lack of new model autos.

It's in South Florida in a semi-large metro area (1.8 million population). COL isn't as high as Miami but isn't as low as Orlando either. It's probably closer to Miami COL than to Orlando. A decent four bedroom house probably goes for $170k-$220k around here

[mw115]

Well, apparently FL pays their prosecutors like s***. I'm assuming Ft. Myers or Ft. Lauderdale.

Look, there will def be trade-offs, and you won't make as much as private attorneys, but a family of 5 making $140 - even with some student loans isn't going to be hurting. Like I said, used cars and maybe a 3 br home instead of a 4 in an almost decent area instead of a decent one.

[Young Marino]

Well, apparently FL pays their prosecutors like s***. I'm assuming Ft. Myers or Ft. Lauderdale.

Look, there will def be trade-offs, and you won't make as much as private attorneys, but a family of 5 making $140 - even with some student loans isn't going to be hurting. Like I said, used cars and maybe a 3 br home instead of a 4 in an almost decent area instead of a decent one.

PMed you.

[XxSpyKEx]

I realize that this is a PI position, but $65k /year as an attorney with 10 years of experience is pretty terrible imo. Sure, you can make it work, but you'll probably be pinching pennies for the rest of your life and will never retire (unless you find a SO who makes substantially more money than you or receive a large inheritance).

[TheSpanishMain]

Yeah, that amount seems low. The local prosecutors I knew in southern Virginia were past the 75k mark well before ten years. Dan, aren't you tight with a bunch of prosecutors at the office you want to work in? Why don't you just ask them about salary levels over time?

[smallfirmassociate]

The good: You don't normally have to work terrible hours or put up with micromanaging mid-levels who dole you out only the shit work they don't want. Benefits are good. Loan forgiveness. Pay, where I live (which is not NYC, LA, Chicago, Atlanta, St. Louis, or Houston), is solid but unspectacular, enough to buy a perfectly fine home and raise a few kids throughout your career, especially if your SO works also. It's a good way to make a run at the bench, if that's what you want to do later in life. Most of the work, on a substantive legal level, is fairly easy and clearly delineated by statute.

The bad: You're not going to get rich. The work is repetitive. You actually have to prepare for trial, and it's frustrating when you do all the work but the defense attorney can just "poke holes" in your case and sometimes get a not guilty verdict. Your job is subject to public scrutiny. You deal with repeat offenders who do stupid shit and annoy you. You have to maintain at least some minimum level of vigilance about your personal privacy and safety.

The ugly: Depending on the structure of your office and the political landscape, you can be shitcanned if your boss loses his next election. There are some really bad defense attorneys out there, and you will be their captive audience in depos and trials. The best thing anyone will ever say about you probably won't be that you're a master trial attorney, but that you're a "hardass" or "experienced" or "grizzled."

All that being said, I think a lot of people underestimate the pros of being a prosecutor. It's not a bad gig, if you're in the right place.

[Young Marino]

I realize that this is a PI position, but $65k /year as an attorney with 10 years of experience is pretty terrible imo. Sure, you can make it work, but you'll probably be pinching pennies for the rest of your life and will never retire (unless you find a SO who makes substantially more money than you or receive a large inheritance).

You do get a very good pension through the state of Florida retirement plan, which is one of the best funded pension plans in the country so saving for retirement, though important, isn't as necessary as one would think. The only thing about "pinching pennies" from what I understand is you have to understand that you'll be living in a regular working/middle class neighborhood. Not Beverley Hills but not Compton either and you won't be driving the latest and greatest vehicle on the road. These are sacrifices I'm willing to make but we'll see.

Yeah, that amount seems low. The local prosecutors I knew in southern Virginia were past the 75k mark well before ten years. Dan, aren't you tight with a bunch of prosecutors at the office you want to work in? Why don't you just ask them about salary levels over time?

I got my data by looking up the salaries through my state website. I will definitely talk to a few of them over winter break about trends in the office. $70k-$75k at ten years I feel is doable but $65k? That may be a little too brutal but again, we'll see.

[XxSpyKEx]

You do get a very good pension through the state of Florida retirement plan, which is one of the best funded pension plans in the country so saving for retirement, though important, isn't as necessary as one would think.

Relying solely on a pension is foolish. A lot can happen in the next 35 years, and that pension you were planning on living off of can magically vanish/get cut significantly.

The only thing about "pinching pennies" from what I understand is you have to understand that you'll be living in a regular working/middle class neighborhood. Not Beverley Hills but not Compton either and you won't be driving the latest and greatest vehicle on the road. These are sacrifices I'm willing to make but we'll see.

$65k /year is really, really bad for an attorney with 10 years of experience. (Compare that with your classmates who went into biglaw and then in-house, and are making $250k+ /year.) $65k /year is going to be around $42-43k /year after taxes, social security, medicare, medicaid, health insurance, etc. That's not terrible if you live in a low cost of living area, don't have kids, and don't need to save for retirement. It's not very practical if one of those conditions change.

[Displeased]

Yeah, that amount seems low. The local prosecutors I knew in southern Virginia were past the 75k mark well before ten years. Dan, aren't you tight with a bunch of prosecutors at the office you want to work in? Why don't you just ask them about salary levels over time?

75k sounds about right for Virginia, though it varies significantly from office to office. 50k to 60k is the starting salary for a newbie prosecutor, and it caps out around 80 for experienced prosecutors. The problem is, you are basically stuck at 80k for the rest of your life, unless you want to run to be Commonwealth attorney, try to become a judge, or get really lucky and become an AUSA.

There are plenty of career prosecutors. Being a trial attorney is an irresistable draw for some people, and there's nothing quite like being a local prosecutor or local defense attorney and having multiple trials a day. You can just hit a ceiling really early in your career. A perfectly competent, capable prosecutor isn't going to break the 100k barrier, at least not in any jurisdiction around here.

[TheSpanishMain]

I got my data by looking up the salaries through my state website. I will definitely talk to a few of them over winter break about trends in the office. $70k-$75k at ten years I feel is doable but $65k? That may be a little too brutal but again, we'll see.

75k after ten years is really, really shitty money. I know 75k sounds like a lot of money when you're 23, but I guarantee you'll feel differently at 30.

Yeah, that amount seems low. The local prosecutors I knew in southern Virginia were past the 75k mark well before ten years. Dan, aren't you tight with a bunch of prosecutors at the office you want to work in? Why don't you just ask them about salary levels over time?

75k sounds about right for Virginia, though it varies significantly from office to office. 50k to 60k is the starting salary for a newbie prosecutor, and it caps out around 80 for experienced prosecutors. The problem is, you are basically stuck at 80k for the rest of your life, unless you want to run to be Commonwealth attorney, try to become a judge, or get really lucky and become an AUSA.

There are plenty of career prosecutors. Being a trial attorney is an irresistable draw for some people, and there's nothing quite like being a local prosecutor or local defense attorney and having multiple trials a day. You can just hit a ceiling really early in your career. A perfectly competent, capable prosecutor isn't going to break the 100k barrier, at least not in any jurisdiction around here.

The guy I'm thinking of (and this was in the Hampton Roads area if that helps) said he made around 90k. He could have been BSing, I suppose, but I did get the impression that he got there rather quickly. Although, as you said, maybe he'll never see another raise again.

[180asBreath]

The Perfect Salary for Happiness: $75,000
http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/09/07/ ... 00-a-year/

Outed for needless use of anon.

[kalvano]

The Perfect Salary for Happiness: $75,000
http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/09/07/ ... 00-a-year/

I've made $75,000 and I've made more and I'm much happier making more.

OP, another thing to consider is that prosecuting is hard work at an emotional level. I worked in the local criminal court during school, and a lot of prosecutors leave and do something else. Not because the money isn't as good, but because you're constantly dealing with terrible, terrible situations and people on a regular basis.

[Anonymous User]

it's frustrating when you do all the work but the defense attorney can just "poke holes" in your case and sometimes get a not guilty verdict.

[XxSpyKEx]

The Perfect Salary for Happiness: $75,000
http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/09/07/ ... 00-a-year/

This article doesn't take into account cost of living at all. There's a big difference between making $75k /year in Montana relative to making $75k /year in NYC in that the person in Montana would be pretty happy while the person in NYC would be homeless.

[Young Marino]

Looked at the numbers again and noticed some ADAs making $75k-$90k after ten years in at the same office. Seem to be just as many prosecutors if not a little less than those in the office making $60k-$65k. Any of the prosecutors on this thread have an idea as to why that be the case? I'm going to wait until winter break to start communicating with my contacts in the office. Also, with work hours not being so crazy, have any of you done something on the side to bring in extra cash like teach a class at your local community college a few times a week or something to that effect?

[BigZuck]

Dan- you've really got to figure this stuff out quick. These are questions you should have asked/research you should have done before attending a TTTT. I remember you rage quitting and showing all the elitists that you have figured it all out, you would pursue your passion and get exactly where you wanted to be. Now you're not sure if the salary will cut it?

I'm not saying this to troll you, I'm just saying you either need to grab this bull by the horns or cut bait from this fish. You have to commit to the cause, or get off the pot and do something else so that you don't end up wasting a lot of time and money. Deciding "well, I need to make a 100K 10 years out so maybe I'll just do get a firm job" is not going to work, the school you chose is incompatible with that.

You're probably in too deep to leave now so I guess maybe stick it out for this semester. But if the conversations you have over winter break aren't satisfying then you should strongly consider dropping out IMO.