More Partners Than Associates in Practice Group Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hi All,

I am thinking of accepting an offer at a firm and the practice group I would be going in has dramatically more partners than associates in it (and most of these associates are fairly senior, 5th year or more)

Do you have any thoughts or insights on the pro's and con's of going into this situation?

Thanks!

[mr.hands]

I have the same question

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have any thoughts?

[20141023]

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[Anonymous User]

I don't have any answers but some of the offices of the firms I considered this OCI season had partner:associate ratios like what you're describing, and I also wondered how that sort of a business model works. I too would be interested in hearing about the way offices / practice groups function when there are more partners than associates, especially when the partners are dedicated to those offices / practice groups and aren't overseeing work elsewhere.

In my case part of is is because it is in a smaller practice area that was devastated by the 2008 econ crisis, and they just had not hired anyone since.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a new first-year to a group like this, and summered in a group like this last summer (different firm, same practice group. some practice groups just lend themselves to this kind of leverage).

pros:
-the subject matter is interesting to me. i knew going in that i wasn't interested in generalized lit or corp.
-the subject matter may be niche, but it's in demand. my group is one of the smallest in the firm but also is one of the most highest earning, in terms of money/people. i feel like i'm building skills that are valued because not everyone knows how to do them. if i leave, could i go anywhere? no. but could i go anywhere that needs this skill set? basically.
-on most issues, you're working directly with partners, and you get client contact much earlier too
-you feel like a valued member of the group, even though you know nothing, because the partners decided to basically take ownership over you and mentor you when they decided to hire you (because you're certainly not making money for them in the short term--you're a long term ticket).

cons:
-steeper learning curve. there's a reason it's mostly partners--it can take a long time before you're able to competently practice. tasks are less discrete, more advisory, and harder to "break off" to give to a young associate.
-fewer hours (though i guess this is also a bonus). i've been straight-up told that i won't make the (billable) hours to be considered for bonus for a few years. plus side: they won't hold that against me, as long as i'm available/asking for work. i'm filling my time with a mixture of practice group reading and pro bono, while always being ready for whatever assignment might pop up.
-isolation--chances are, you'll be the only associate +/- a few years, and it's not like the partners necessarily want to hang out with you/chat in a social sense. my firm is large enough that there's plenty of people around my age/experience, just not in my group. your day-to-day can be a little lonely.

it's an area that's overlooked because not many people get the opportunity. if you do have the opportunity, should you take it? i did, so i'm biased, but.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a new first-year to a group like this, and summered in a group like this last summer (different firm, same practice group. some practice groups just lend themselves to this kind of leverage).

pros:
-the subject matter is interesting to me. i knew going in that i wasn't interested in generalized lit or corp.
-the subject matter may be niche, but it's in demand. my group is one of the smallest in the firm but also is one of the most highest earning, in terms of money/people. i feel like i'm building skills that are valued because not everyone knows how to do them. if i leave, could i go anywhere? no. but could i go anywhere that needs this skill set? basically.
-on most issues, you're working directly with partners, and you get client contact much earlier too
-you feel like a valued member of the group, even though you know nothing, because the partners decided to basically take ownership over you and mentor you when they decided to hire you (because you're certainly not making money for them in the short term--you're a long term ticket).

cons:
-steeper learning curve. there's a reason it's mostly partners--it can take a long time before you're able to competently practice. tasks are less discrete, more advisory, and harder to "break off" to give to a young associate.
-fewer hours (though i guess this is also a bonus). i've been straight-up told that i won't make the (billable) hours to be considered for bonus for a few years. plus side: they won't hold that against me, as long as i'm available/asking for work. i'm filling my time with a mixture of practice group reading and pro bono, while always being ready for whatever assignment might pop up.
-isolation--chances are, you'll be the only associate +/- a few years, and it's not like the partners necessarily want to hang out with you/chat in a social sense. my firm is large enough that there's plenty of people around my age/experience, just not in my group. your day-to-day can be a little lonely.

it's an area that's overlooked because not many people get the opportunity. if you do have the opportunity, should you take it? i did, so i'm biased, but.

0L, wondering what kind of practice group this is. All the cons actually sound like pros to me...!!!

[20141023]

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[McAvoy]

0L, wondering what kind of practice group this is. All the cons actually sound like pros to me...!!!

You're not supposed to post here, buddy

[Anonymous User]

it's a regulatory group that doesn't have a neat definition. we have a lit component, we assist our corp group with deals that involve our practice area, and a lot of it is kind of tax-y. sorry for being a little vague---as i said, it's small (although there are certainly several small groups that could meet this definition) so i don't want to out myself. think: enviro, benefits, energy, exec comp, healthcare, construction, labor+employment, etc. anything that is heavily regulated but could span a few different traditional practices.

[Anonymous User]

I am in a different niche group with that kind of ratio and I agree with most of those pros and cons. The places I would differ are 1) my exit opportunities are probably more limited than that, and we're not as valuable relative to other practice groups as it sounds like that group is, but that's a function of practice group, not partner:associate ratio, 2) there are plenty of tasks to give a young associate (also more about practice area), and 3) I too consider most of the cons to be pros, lol. I like that I'm almost always working directly for a partner; it sounds like mid-level and senior associates are part of what makes the experience bad for junior associates in a lot of firms/groups. But you are in the deep end almost from day one, so you have to be comfortable with that, and have the courage to yell for the lifeguard when necessary.

[Anonymous User]

I'm also a first year in such a group. I also agree with most thing said, although two things are slightly different: my exit options should be better than most other juniors because I'm in a small group of a popular practice area(firm name and additional skills/experience should help) we have a sizable incoming first year class so I am not at all isolated (benefit of a large firm).

Something to emphasize: many partners have achieved good work life balance, unlike most mid-level associates. So working with mostly partners means it's easier for you to keep a similar balance. They are still going to work you hard but you won't be in the office until 10 every night unnecessarily because they leave. Can't say the same when working for juniors and or many mid-levels.

[Ohiobumpkin]

it's a regulatory group that doesn't have a neat definition. we have a lit component, we assist our corp group with deals that involve our practice area, and a lot of it is kind of tax-y. sorry for being a little vague---as i said, it's small (although there are certainly several small groups that could meet this definition) so i don't want to out myself. think: enviro, benefits, energy, exec comp, healthcare, construction, labor+employment, etc. anything that is heavily regulated but could span a few different traditional practices.

So you work in employee benefits with focus on ERISA issues. Hot or cold?

[toolfan]

Very common. A big practice group may have 20 partners but only 5-6 associates. It may seem that the group is understaffed, and it may very well be. How could only 5-6 associates support so many partners? Well...make them work a ton. This generally makes it easier for associates to meet their billable hour marks.