HYS 1L seeking Houston BigLaw, looking for advice Forum

[Anonymous User]

Alright, it's 2am and I probably blew off doing some important writing/studying to research career prospects for the last 4 hours so I think it's time to go ahead and see if TLS can offer me any more detailed information.

I'm a 1L at HYS non-URM trying to get into Houston Biglaw. I have pretty strong ties to the city and from what I can tell I should have a good shot at getting a 1L SA there. However, I have a few questions that could really help me figure out what in the world I'm doing with my life:

1. I've heard rumors that I can get a Biglaw 1L SA at some big firms in Houston before my grades? I just have no idea what my grades will be and I love planning things, so if that were true I'd be able to add a bit more certainty to my not-too-distant future. Is it "offer w/o grades", "offer contingent on grades", or something else entirely?

2. Should I even do a 1L SA? I think it'd be good to get an early look at at Houston Biglaw culture/work, but I'm a max grant recipient (read: poor person) and the money I make there will likely just be taken straight out of my grants. Unfortunately, it seems hard to tell for sure because the finaid office is reluctant to give any guestimates about how increases in your income affect aid. Meanwhile, I'm interested in government work and I'd like to do something in that field this summer as well.

3. Finally, can anyone (either posted as a response here or through PM's, which ever you are most comfortable with) give me a bit of their experience working in some of these firms? I'm interested in firms that start at 160k but I'd love to hear from other people working at smaller firms as well. I've heard all the horror stories and I'm hoping, hoping, most of them were just disgruntled employees and/or that Houston has a relatively better QOL.

Thanks for any and all responses!

[AntipodeanPhil]

2. Should I even do a 1L SA? I think it'd be good to get an early look at at Houston Biglaw culture/work, but I'm a max grant recipient (read: poor person) and the money I make there will likely just be taken straight out of my grants. Unfortunately, it seems hard to tell for sure because the finaid office is reluctant to give any guestimates about how increases in your income affect aid. Meanwhile, I'm interested in government work and I'd like to do something in that field this summer as well.

That's weird -- the financial aid office at my HYS gives a specific formula for working out how summer income affects financial aid.

You'll probably do better financially at a Texas firm for a couple of reasons: (i) the formula your financial aid office uses for reducing your financial aid will probably assume a certain tax rate; at my HYS, that assumed rate is higher than any student's actual tax rate, but it will be even higher if you summer in Texas, given that you won't pay any state income tax; (2) you will be allowed to keep a certain amount of your summer income for summer living costs, but your living costs in Texas will be much lower, so you won't need to spend the whole amount.

I know a guy at my HYS who spent half a summer at a Texas firm and had enough left over from the amount financial aid gave him to spend the second half of his summer overseas.

I would absolutely do a 1L SA if you're planning on biglaw after graduation. It will give you more choice and more perspective. Also, Texas firms no offer more than other major markets, so a 1L SA would be a great way to reduce your chance of getting screwed.

Since Texas firms generally only offer positions for half a summer, you could always do that and something else.

[Anonymous User]

Hmm, if they do I just need to dig it up. My knowledge on how they did grants was based on my interactions with them this last summer. They weren't comfortable telling me anything really and couldn't ball park say, what my 2L grants would be now that my parents have jobs without going through the actual process. I'll devote a little time this week to trying to find exactly what the cost benefit analysis is on this though. Thanks for the post.

[BVest]

1. I've heard rumors that I can get a Biglaw 1L SA at some big firms in Houston before my grades? I just have no idea what my grades will be and I love planning things, so if that were true I'd be able to add a bit more certainty to my not-too-distant future. Is it "offer w/o grades", "offer contingent on grades", or something else entirely?[/quote]

I'm pretty sure it's offer without grades. It's possibly contingent (and may vary by firm), but would that really make a difference as to whether you'd apply? Just prepare your cover letters/résumés sometime when you've got some down time and have them ready to email first thing on Dec 1 (or, if snail-mailing, drop in the mail on Nov 26 -- the Wednesday before Thanksgiving; December 1 falls on the Monday after Thanksgiving, so they should arrive right on Dec 1). Once you get grades, follow up with any firms you haven't heard back from to update your application.

[Frayed Knot]

Three quick points:

• The money probably shouldn't be a huge factor here. After taxes/a reduction in your aid, it's not that much money. And, especially if you end up in TX biglaw without bigdebt, your lifetime earnings far dwarf the money from one summer.
• If you're planning to do a 2L SA in Texas, this is probably your only chance to intern for a judge/try government work. Those can be good jobs for getting to know people/setting you up for a clerkship (writing sample, etc.).
• I think the time it makes the most sense to do a 1L SA in Texas is when you're not sure that you want to work in Texas. Then you can do a 2L SA in different market (and split so you spend 2-4 weeks at the TX firm). That lets you choose between the two markets at the end of your 2L year (and can set you up to lateral back to TX if you don't start there).

[BigZuck]

Three quick points:

• The money probably shouldn't be a huge factor here. After taxes/a reduction in your aid, it's not that much money. And, especially if you end up in TX biglaw without bigdebt, your lifetime earnings far dwarf the money from one summer.
• If you're planning to do a 2L SA in Texas, this is probably your only chance to intern for a judge/try government work. Those can be good jobs for getting to know people/setting you up for a clerkship (writing sample, etc.).
• I think the time it makes the most sense to do a 1L SA in Texas is when you're not sure that you want to work in Texas. Then you can do a 2L SA in different market (and split so you spend 2-4 weeks at the TX firm). That lets you choose between the two markets at the end of your 2L year (and can set you up to lateral back to TX if you don't start there).

Suggesting someone not take a 1L SA, let alone in their desired market, sounds like lunacy to me.

OP- if you get a 1L SA, TAKE IT.

If you're curious about particular firms, google them, search on this site for firm name+culture, read the 2014 TX OCI thread, read chambers and partners/associates, vault, etc. TX big law isn't super well represented on this site and I doubt you'll get kindly Baker Botts, V&E, etc. lawyers to personally PM you.

[Frayed Knot]

Suggesting someone not take a 1L SA, let alone in their desired market, sounds like lunacy to me.

OP- if you get a 1L SA, TAKE IT.

I don’t believe this really applies to TX or southern markets that tend to hire a lot of 1L SAs. I mean, yeah, if you get a 1L SA in a market that doesn’t usually hire 1Ls, then it’s a unicorn job and you should take it without looking back. But TX markets aren’t like that—they typically hire lots of 1L SAs.

If you have enough ties to get a 1L SA without grades, then you should be in great shape to get a 2L SA from HYS. Network/keep in touch with TX people, but don’t feel that you’ve got to spend your 1L summer in TX biglaw to keep that door open. (That said, it might be helpful to be in TX if you work for a judge/PI organization.)

Of course, as AntipodeanPhil said, you can always hedge by doing half a summer at a firm and half with a gov/PI org. That’s what’s so great about markets that hire half summers.

[A. Nony Mouse]

If you're planning to do a 2L SA in Texas, this is probably your only chance to intern for a judge/try government work. Those can be good jobs for getting to know people/setting you up for a clerkship (writing sample, etc.).

I can't comment on Texas biglaw at all, but I don't quite agree with the above. 1L summer is probably your only chance to intern for a judge/try government in Texas, but you can still get this kind of experience by interning/externing for a judge/government entity during the school year.

[Frayed Knot]

If you're planning to do a 2L SA in Texas, this is probably your only chance to intern for a judge/try government work. Those can be good jobs for getting to know people/setting you up for a clerkship (writing sample, etc.).

I can't comment on Texas biglaw at all, but I don't quite agree with the above. 1L summer is probably your only chance to intern for a judge/try government in Texas, but you can still get this kind of experience by interning/externing for a judge/government entity during the school year.

That’s a fair point. I never did a externship during the school year, but my understanding was that they’re a bit different experience than a summer job. But you’re absolutely right that it’s an option that I should have flagged.

[MyNameIsFlynn!]

For what it's worth, I know a couple people who split between BigLaw and govt. They were in markets other than TX, but I'd imagine Texas' tendency toward splitting would make it even easier there.

[BigZuck]

Messing around with chances at full time employment for the sake of taking a summer internship with a judge is a terrible idea IMO

[20141023]

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[Frayed Knot]

Jesus some of the people ITT are giving horrible advice. If you think you might want to end up doing biglaw and you think you might want to end up working in Texas, it would be absolutely stupid not to do a 1L SA at a biglaw firm in Texas if you have that option. HYS doesn't mean auto-admit to every firm you apply to despite what some of the posters ITT are insinuating.

I guess I'm the main person giving the "horrible advice" that Regulus is talking about. And he might be right that it's bad advice—certainly, Regulus' advice to maximize your chance of doing Texas BigLaw by doing a Texas 1L SA is TCR.

I guess my advice is motivated by my own regrets: I followed similar advice, and did a 1L SA, and then did a 2L SA in the same secondary market. At my 2L SA, I worked with other students from my school who had done something else the previous summer and ended up in the same spot but with a bigger network (because they got to know different people the previous summer and I worked with the same people). Looking back, I'm pretty sure I could have passed on the 1L SA and wound up with the same 2L job. I'm satisfied with how things ended up but feel that I was too risk-averse when deciding how to spend my 1L summer. But the grass is always greener/there's a real value to risk aversion too.

[BVest]

Jesus some of the people ITT are giving horrible advice. If you think you might want to end up doing biglaw and you think you might want to end up working in Texas, it would be absolutely stupid not to do a 1L SA at a biglaw firm in Texas if you have that option. HYS doesn't mean auto-admit to every firm you apply to despite what some of the posters ITT are insinuating.

I guess I'm the main person giving the "horrible advice" that Regulus is talking about. And he might be right that it's bad advice—certainly, Regulus' advice to maximize your chance of doing Texas BigLaw by doing a Texas 1L SA is TCR.

I guess my advice is motivated by my own regrets: I followed similar advice, and did a 1L SA, and then did a 2L SA in the same secondary market. At my 2L SA, I worked with other students from my school who had done something else the previous summer and ended up in the same spot but with a bigger network (because they got to know different people the previous summer and I worked with the same people). Looking back, I'm pretty sure I could have passed on the 1L SA and wound up with the same 2L job. I'm satisfied with how things ended up but feel that I was too risk-averse when deciding how to spend my 1L summer. But the grass is always greener/there's a real value to risk aversion too.

The market firms in Texas that have 1L SAs all allow (or more often require) split summers, and most of them are 1st half. As has been said, if the OP wants to do a gov or judicial internship, taking a 1L SA does not preclude that.

[BigZuck]

I sincerely wish my life was so good that one of my major regrets was working as a 1L SA.

[20141023]

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[mandimeoutof10]

I sincerely wish my life was so good that one of my major regrets was working as a 1L SA.

so much this

[patogordo]

every day i cry over the size of my network. it's not worth it, OP

[Anonymous User]

- OP

Hey guys, thanks for all of the responses! I am checking this thread I just haven't had a lot of time lately to actually formulate any follow up questions yet. But I appreciate the insight, it's been a big help.

[Anonymous User]

was once in your shoes.

HYS 1L with strong TX ties (as in I grew up and lived there - I could have a ~30min commute to work at the firms in question) who even had strong professional experience in the market before (had worked at an MBB in the same market).

I thought I wanted to come back to TX, do the biglaw thing with good COL (and hell, better QOL) and no tax, etc. Even got a couple CBs over winter break, but no offer. Maybe I was just a shitty interviewer.

Flash-forward - I worked for the govt 1L in DC and absolutely loved loved loved it. Dramatically better experience to spend the summer in DC than anything I could have done in TX. For fall recruiting, I applied pretty selectively, but ended up with offers at all four of the V6 firms I interviewed with (two of them I avoided on purpose) including the vaunted V1. Guess I wasn't so shitty after all.

So all I'd say is perhaps its risk-aversion that everyone is counseling you to think about, but I'm not sure they're right. I would use the summer to do something totally different and, hey, you never know. You might discover a whole new world.