Small IP Boutique-->BigLaw (How feasible is it?) Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm a 3L with below median (prob bottom 3rd) grades at a Top 14. I have significant pre-law work experience in the IT field but no hard science degree, so I'm not patent bar eligible. Because of my subpar 1L grades, finding a firm job has been nearly impossible. After hundreds of applications and rejections, I recently received an offer from an IP Boutique in a major (non DC/NY) market non w/no significant ties. The boutique does mostly transactional IP and at some point I have to sit for the patent bar. In the meantime, they're willing to hire me and train me on patent drafting because many of their customers are technology companies that specialize in what I did before school. I would still have to take enough CS/physics classes (part-time) to be eligible for the bar and they help with school. I know it's unheard for a firm to be willing to take so many chances and I really do appreciate it.

My only issue is the pay is significantly less than biglaw and what I expected based on the little info I could find. The lower COL helps, but I sill have loans to pay (175k+). I'm wondering if I take this job for a few yrs (prob 2-3), get the training and take the patent bar, would I have a decent shot at Biglaw? I know that generally once the Biglaw ship has sailed it's hard to get on it, but is this less so with IP? I would ideally like to end up in-house, but paying my loans off is the biggest priority and I also think I would have better exit options from Biglaw.

[linda90]

OP, I think it is very valuable that this firm is willing to train you and invest in you. Patent prosecution is not the most profitable business for Biglaw. Nevertheless, there are still a good number of big law firms which do patent prosecution and IP licensing.
In terms of your loans, is this the highest paid job you can get? I do see patent prosecution hiring has picked up a bit so there might be some firms still looking. How many more science credits do you need to take in order to sit for the patent bar? Can you take those classes at a community college before you graduate?

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for your response. I'm not really married to patent prosecution and am more interested in IP transactions and tech licensing, in addition to data privacy. The firm also does some licensing and litigation, but I get the impression that patent work would be the main thing I'd be doing. I still have a significant amount of science classes to take (6-8), otherwise I would've done as you've suggested and tried to finish up b4 law school. Also, this is the only offer that I have. During OCI most firms pretty much typecasted me into IP because of my background, which put me at a disadvantage because I'm not patent bar eligible. Since my grades made me less competitive in general and I kept getting put in the IP bucket by firms, I focused a lot on IP my 2L year hoping it would help, but 1L grades are really holding me back despite a significant improvement 2L yr. I've mass-mailed all over the place, which is how I got this offer.

[AReasonableMan]

How much is the pay? I'm not saying you don't deserve something better, but you didn't underperform. Of course, you being satisfied is what's most important, but many people with those grades are in the vale.

[Anonymous User]

Transitioning from small patent prosecution boutique to BigLaw happens all the time. It's very common. I know of people who have transitioned from basically working with solo practitioners to BigLaw. Patent prosecution recruitment is extremely tough for firms right now. You don't need to work 2-3 years at the boutique. You can transition in 1 year if you have your patent bar situation resolved.

The main issue is that not all BigLaw firms do patent prosecution and you need to be efficient in order to survive with the much higher billing rates.

If you do plan on moving on to another firm from the boutique within a year or so, make sure that your first assignments are extremely high quality as they will most likely be your first published work because they would be your writing samples when applying.

[Anonymous User]

- the large firm's lawyers will just exploit your technical knowledge / want you to do their work for them while they are paid more $$.

- the hiring partner at a big firm might be skeptical to hire someone whom might have gained bad habits at your (non-NYC/DC) boutique

- the partners don't want someone just coming in trying to snatch the same clients that they themselves had stole from a dead partner.

Lastly, most laterals from small IP boutiques who belly-flop into big firms are generally the old guys unable to run their own firms anymore and/or are about ready to retire and so are looking for a large firm to hide in and feed them.

[Anonymous User]

How much is the pay? I'm not saying you don't deserve something better, but you didn't underperform. Of course, you being satisfied is what's most important, but many people with those grades are in the vale.

The pay is between 85k-100k. I'm definitely not complaining, as I considered myself a part of the vale before the offer. I've followed that thread since striking out at OCI, so I know that i got lucky. I just want to know the likelihood of other options in the near future that would help me pay my loans with less trouble. I'm not even sold on BigLaw and not really concerned with prestige, it's more of a means to an end type situation for me. I'm a non-traditional student and I had a home mortgage before acquiring a mortgage-sized student loan. I also made about 130k before law school in my past career, but I really wanted to be a lawyer so I took a chance. Of course I couldn't have predicted that I would get sick or that my grades would suck to the extent that they do. Such is life. I accept my current circumstances and just want to plan my next move, but have no one to ask for insight.

[Anonymous User]

- the large firm's lawyers will just exploit your technical knowledge / want you to do their work for them while they are paid more $$.

- the hiring partner at a big firm might be skeptical to hire someone whom might have gained bad habits at your (non-NYC/DC) boutique

- the partners don't want someone just coming in trying to snatch the same clients that they themselves had stole from a dead partner.

Lastly, most laterals from small IP boutiques who belly-flop into big firms are generally the old guys unable to run their own firms anymore and/or are about ready to retire and so are looking for a large firm to hide in and feed them.

I guess I understand the hiring partner being concerned about possible bad habits from a non-NYC-DC boutique, although wherever I end up, I hope that it's not NYC/DC. So perhaps it will be less of a concern elsewhere. However, I can't see why anyone would think that a new associate with less than 3 yrs of experience is capable of stealing clients. Especially since I would probably never interact with them anyway. Or is this different for IP transactions?

[Anonymous User]

$85k-$100k is really low, but maybe they're giving you a technical specialist salary rather than a patent agent or associate.

I wouldn't be concerned about "bad habits" since every client has different requirements and people just have different styles and theories that never match up. You just need to do what the client wants in an efficient manner. That's something that isn't provided to you by training. It's a skill you develop on your own. Some people have it, some people don't.

Plus, NYC isn't a well-regard patent prosecution region and DC is mainly inbound foreign work which is looked-down upon by most practitioners even though I wouldn't mind doing it since it's easy revenue.

[Anonymous User]

$85k-$100k is really low, but maybe they're giving you a technical specialist salary rather than a patent agent or associate.

I wouldn't be concerned about "bad habits" since every client has different requirements and people just have different styles and theories that never match up. You just need to do what the client wants in an efficient manner. That's something that isn't provided to you by training. It's a skill you develop on your own. Some people have it, some people don't.

Plus, NYC isn't a well-regard patent prosecution region and DC is mainly inbound foreign work which is looked-down upon by most practitioners even though I wouldn't mind doing it since it's easy revenue.

OP Here. Thanks for confirming my instincts that the salary was indeed very low. I didn't have much to compare it to besides biglaw (since their salaries are published), but it still felt low for an IP boutique given the skillset required. Since I don't fully have all of the required skills (on paper) then I will suck it up for now and quickly put myself in a more marketable position. Thanks!

[linda90]

OP, if you are interested in taking the patent bar before graduation, please pm me. There might be a way to do it.