Few more days to make decision and I'm agonizing. Help me. Forum

[Anonymous User]

My options are in the poll. Here's some info

DC V20: Typical DC biglaw firm, but I really enjoyed the people I met and they are strong in practice groups I think I'd like to be in. Strong revolving door into gov't.

Midlaw 110k: Strong regional firm in a secondary market that I would absolutely love to be in. Lots of personal reasons for wanting to be back. 1750 hour requirement, 2:1 partner to associate ratio, strong partnership prospects. I'd take this in a heartbeat, but I'm concerned about the exit options (I'm interested in DOJ).

Goals: If I get into a practice group I enjoy, I may just stick it out and see if I can land partner (especially at the midsized firms; I realize this isn't realistic for the DC firm). Eventually, I want to either make the transition to the DOJ or become an ADA.

Debt before interest at graduation will be about 130k

Edited to remove an option that I'm just really not considering at this point.

[Law Sauce]

Start at the DC v20. No question. You will just get so much more sophisticated work while making a lot more money (especially with those yearly increases) + build your resume. Go back to smaller markets later if you so desire. Plus you want to go DOJ... so...

Of course, personal reasons are your business. They could validly trump any other considerations. But only you can know if they do in your situation

Seems like basically:
DC: easy objective answer IMO
110k firm: has some personal draw that you must evaluate
125K firm: I don't see how is a good option at all

[Anonymous User]

OP

Thanks for your input. Personal reasons basically boil down that my close friends and family are all in this secondary market (but it's not where I grew up). Originally, I went to law school with the intent to return, but now DC is obviously not something i'd give up lightly.

Prestige matters very little. I'm just concerned with being happy, which I know is hard for a bunch of strangers on the internet to evaluate. It's not that I'd be unhappy in DC, but I'd certainly be longing for the other city. Question is whether the salary, exit options, etc. would outweigh that.

[Anonymous User]

OP

Thanks for your input. Personal reasons basically boil down that my close friends and family are all in this secondary market (but it's not where I grew up). Originally, I went to law school with the intent to return, but now DC is obviously not something i'd give up lightly.

Prestige matters very little. I'm just concerned with being happy, which I know is hard for a bunch of strangers on the internet to evaluate. It's not that I'd be unhappy in DC, but I'd certainly be longing for the other city. Question is whether the salary, exit options, etc. would outweigh that.

Go to the other city and live your life. DC is a godawful prestige sucking swamp 90% of the time. When you live there, you cling to the 10% like its your lifeline, but otherwise its a transient characterless place.

[Anonymous User]

I had a choice between ultra-prestigious litigation boutique in major market or middle of the road biglaw in my home market. I took the ulta prestigious option - I figured that if I liked the job/work, I would make the city work. Turned out to be a big mistake and I left after a year. It is very difficult to have a life while in private practice - no need to make it harder by being away from those people already willing to accommodate your unreasonable schedule.

There's no guarantee your career will go the direction you want even if you go to DC. You're better off for the long haul if you're in the right city.

[WhirledWorld]

.

[Pikappraider]

you can always go back to a secondary mid law firm with a dc pedigree.

[nickelanddime]

you can always go back to a secondary mid law firm with a dc pedigree.

I don't know why people keep saying this. It is not that easy to make cross-country moves. I'm trying to make one and talked to a recruiter just today - after explaining how challenging it would be, she said something along the lines of "I bet you wish someone had told you all this in law school, right?"

[Anonymous User]

you can always go back to a secondary mid law firm with a dc pedigree.

I don't know why people keep saying this. It is not that easy to make cross-country moves.

Why make 3-5 years of your life unnecessarily suck? Seriously. Unless you really and truly want a job that the DC firm can more likely get you, stay far away.

[jbagelboy]

depends - is $110K market rate in the other city? like Minneapolis or something? If top firms in the secondary market are $160K or $145K then fuck that. Not that money is everything, but that's a lot of money (to probably do similar work at similar hours -- I don't buy the mid law bliss game).

this response is largely motivated by your debt figure. big law debt means you need a big law salary at least for a few yrs to pay it off, with some caveats.

[Nomo]

Does one firm have a higher offer rate? History of layoffs, cold offers, or no offers? That would be the first place to look. After that, do what you think will make you happy. It's possible the DC firm will make it easier to get into the DOJ, but nothing will make it easy to get DOJ. And what makes you so sure you want DOJ? Is there some DOJ section with a unique practice area you are really interested in?

[wanderer]

.

[Callsam]

Coin flip has always worked for me

[TheThriller]

Coin flip has always worked for me

You're a crappy poster dood.

[Anonymous User]

OP

110k is market. Both firms have 100% offer rates, and as far as I know, no cold offers.

I want to do DOJ because I'd like to prosecute eventually, so either DOJ or at a USAO. I'm also open to moving to local prosecution to see if I can eventually make the jump to the local USAO (the secondary market USAO a tends to hire from the local DAs offices). But DC is DC and it seems like govt opportunities would be more plentiful there.

[BigZuck]

Kinda seems like you want to have your cake and eat it too (partnership prospects+DOJ). I'd personally lean toward the V20 cuz DOJ+money+don't necessarily believe the midlaw bliss thing either but following your heart seems acceptable too. We aren't your heart nor do we have access to it so that one is on you.

[Anonymous User]

don't fall for the 1750k hour requirement. You'll probably end up billing 2000+ hours a year

[Anonymous User]

OP. Thanks for the responses everybody. It's really nice to get some real advice instead of the "just do what you want" from some of the people closer to me.

don't fall for the 1750k hour requirement. You'll probably end up billing 2000+ hours a year

According to NALP, the average hours billed were ~1900 for associates. While it likely varies between practice groups, I honestly don't think that, barring a major trial, 2000+ is the norm.

Kinda seems like you want to have your cake and eat it too (partnership prospects+DOJ). I'd personally lean toward the V20 cuz DOJ+money+don't necessarily believe the midlaw bliss thing either but following your heart seems acceptable too. We aren't your heart nor do we have access to it so that one is on you.

I guess you're right re: wanting my cake/eat it too. I know it's not possible, so I'm just trying to balance things out. Again, thanks for the advice everyone!

[Anonymous User]

You are going to work your tail off either way you go.
If you do things right at either firm you are not going to have a life as you get older.
Go to DC. Get paid. Then if you hate it move back. It is much harder to go from midwest to DC.

Best of luck.

[dixiecupdrinking]

If you are confident you want to be in the secondary market, it would be silly to go to DC.

You can only make decisions to keep your options open for so long before you find yourself backing into choices you didn't mean to make.

But if you aren't sure, then kick the can down the road and do DC.

[patogordo]

i wouldn't put much stock in nalp hours. my firm has a similar avg billed on nalp and our minimum is 2000.

[kcdc1]

I would go with the mid-law in your desired city. This decision essentially boils down to a choice between near-term happiness and partnership prospects against prestige. Admittedly, I have not yet been 3-5 years into a legal career and looking to lateral, so I cannot say whether or how much the prestige will actually matter. Based on my friends' experiences in biglaw, I can tell you that the jobs that law students pine for are the same jobs that associates try to escape (with varying success). As to exit options, I think that students largely apply the law school prestige mentality (need a top school to get a good job) to their firm choice, essentially assuming that they will be unable to secure their next job if they do not max out prestige in their first. I don't think the model holds up. Law students are fungible products purchased in bulk with only packaging to separate one from the next. The next hiring stage is going to care about your skills, your personality, your fit, etc.

My advice is to go with the firm at which you will be the closest to happy. If you want to leave down the road, cross that bridge when you come to it. I find it hard to believe that having chosen to work closer to your family will preclude you from finding a good job down the road.

[NotMyRealName09]

I tend to say go for the biggest / best you can. You can always move down the ladder to regional mid-law - it's much harder to climb up to big city attorneying. This coming from someone working mid-law now who never had big-city opportunities like DC as any kind of possibility. If I could have, I would have, despite everything you hear about quality of life, intense hours and pressure, etc. All that said, I love my job and regret nothing. Lower COL in secondary / tertiary markets is a universally-acknowledged yet under-appreciated reality.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

I voted DC

I live in a secondary market and accepted NYC over offers here because it is much easier to go back then the direction. I'm personally planning to do only a few years in NYC big law and then try to do mid law/boutique in a mid sized market.

Congrats on these great options

[kcdc1]

I live in a secondary market and accepted NYC over offers here because it is much easier to go back then the direction. I'm personally planning to do only a few years in NYC big law and then try to do mid law/boutique in a mid sized market.

I wanted bread, so I bought wheat seeds instead of bread because it's much easier to convert wheat seeds into bread than it is to go the other direction.