Want to save the world? Do Biglaw! Forum

[rickgrimes69]

Can't believe this hasn't been posted yet

http://hlrecord.org/?p=19728

Hey, corporate lawyers! Are you sick and tired of your public interest classmates always talking about how they're "saving the world"? Have we ever got a deal for you! Starting now, for the low, low price of 25% of your post-tax Biglaw income, you too can save the world, rub it in their smug faces and feel validated in your career choice! Well, what are you waiting for? Start Biglaw today!

[sideroxylon]

here's a much better article

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/won ... the-world/

[Desert Fox]

Corporations need defense attorneys too.

[BigRob]

This line of thinking pleases me. It's like an employed attorney who spends his time volunteering at a soup kitchen; it's god damn ridiculous. He should work an extra hour at his $500/hr. rate and donate it instead of doing the work that someone else could (would) do for $10/hour. He could do fifty times more good that way, even if his legal work is for corporate "bad guys."

Similarly: If you want to prevent baby seals from being clubbed to death, it's worth it to personally club baby seals to death if you make $500/hr doing so and donate the money to an anti-seal clubbing club.

[patogordo]

yea except of the $500 donated, $2 goes to pay for the soup kitchen and $498 goes to "overhead"

[Tanicius]

yea except of the $500 donated, $2 goes to pay for the soup kitchen and $498 goes to "overhead"

And realistically speaking, how often do biglaw attorneys donate significant amounts of money? You're just gonna donate $40k as a fifth year associate, huh? Yeah right.

[Old Gregg]

It's just hilarious that the average joe thinks corporate attorneys are "rich" or "wealthy" or even "well paid." When you're paying $250k in student loans and living in a high COL city, you don't even make much more, if at all, than the typical college grad who just started at an ibank. you probably net even less.

and the bigger problem is that such people are still maligned by much of the US, so they'll never have a voice. imagine a protest to raise the income thresholds for the student loan interest deduction. it would never happen and, if it did, it would be way more made fun of than anything occupy wall street every did.

[beepboopbeep]

the typical college grad who just started at an ibank

I hope I'm not being whooshed. In either case, http://www.theatlantic.com/national/arc ... ion/63206/. Sadly can't find the original post.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Allow me to sing you a song of woe, the tale of the shunned, silenced biglaw associate.

Of course, you're solving little systemically by forgoing biglaw for public interest; someone else will take the biglaw job, just as someone else would have taken the public interest job, and in all likelihood done about the same quality of work with the same impact. It's ultimately a personal decision about what you want to spend your days doing and what you want to be directly complicit in. There is something selfish about that but it's also disingenuous to suggest the decision is morally neutral.

[Old Gregg]

he thinks that he ought to be able to pay off student loans, contribute to retirement savings vehicles, build equity, drive new cars, live in a big expensive house, send his children to private school, and still have plenty of cash at the end of the month for the $200 restaurant meals, the $1000 a night resort hotel rooms, and the $75,000 automobiles.

way to mischaracterize what im saying. i think the above (with the strikeouts of course), is what anybody in biglaw should be able to do at a base level, and even that's not super easy.

[dixiecupdrinking]

I complain about biglaw as much as the next guy but it's preposterous to say that biglaw attorneys aren't "well paid."

[Old Gregg]

and lets do quick math here:

First year salary NYC: $160,000
After tax: $93,600
After loan payments (assuming $250k, 10 year repayment): $36k/year, so $57,600.

That's bullshit to live in NYC on. Somehow, you also need to save money, live in an apartment (and not necessarily luxury, just an apartment), and feed yourself.

[Desert Fox]

Big Law lifestyle isn't so bad if it were stable. Even 250k at LIBOR + 3% isn't that big of deal if you could just pay it off over 10-15 years.

But its not stable. I could be making 60k or 600k in ten years.

[Old Gregg]

I complain about biglaw as much as the next guy but it's preposterous to say that biglaw attorneys aren't "well paid."

just looking at salaries isnt enough. $160k without debt is A LOT of money, and id consider biglaw attorneys well paid along those lines.

But $160k with $250k student loans? no way.

[patogordo]

just do ibr and pray to king obama

[Anonymous User]

I complain about biglaw as much as the next guy but it's preposterous to say that biglaw attorneys aren't "well paid."

just looking at salaries isnt enough. $160k without debt is A LOT of money, and id consider biglaw attorneys well paid along those lines.

But $160k with $250k student loans? no way.

Sorry, but dixiecupdrinking is right. You could be faced with $250K student loans on a lot less than BigLaw salary, or even no job at all. Don't complain about having to service your loans with $160K salary. Imagine servicing it on $50 or $60K.

[Desert Fox]

I complain about biglaw as much as the next guy but it's preposterous to say that biglaw attorneys aren't "well paid."

just looking at salaries isnt enough. $160k without debt is A LOT of money, and id consider biglaw attorneys well paid along those lines.

But $160k with $250k student loans? no way.

Sorry, but dixiecupdrinking is right. You could be faced with $250K student loans on a lot less than BigLaw salary, or even no job at all. Don't complain about having to service your loans with $160K salary. Imagine servicing it on $50 or $60K.

With arguing skillz like this, no wonder you are servicing on 60k.

[dixiecupdrinking]

1. It's not biglaw salary that's the problem, it's law school costs. Should firms pay $500k/year to people who haven't even been admitted yet because their law school deans want a third vacation home?
2. Having to live on like $60k net of taxes and loans is like the definition of a first world problem.

[sundance95]

1. It's not biglaw salary that's the problem, it's law school costs. Should firms pay $500k/year to people who haven't even been admitted yet because their law school deans force people to bill 2500+ just because their partners want a third vacation home?

[Old Gregg]

1. It's not biglaw salary that's the problem, it's law school costs. Should firms pay $500k/year to people who haven't even been admitted yet because their law school deans want a third vacation home?
2. Having to live on like $60k net of taxes and loans is like the definition of a first world problem.

1) There both intertwined. No doubt law schools saw it fit to raise tuition because (a) law firm salaries are so high and (b) there are market distortions based on government intervention (i.e., guaranteeing all student loans).

2) Living on $60k in Houston is a breeze. Living on $60k, for your career job, in NYC, is not at all.

[Anonymous User]

and lets do quick math here:

First year salary NYC: $160,000
After tax: $93,600
After loan payments (assuming $250k, 10 year repayment): $36k/year, so $57,600.

That's bullshit to live in NYC on. Somehow, you also need to save money, live in an apartment (and not necessarily luxury, just an apartment), and feed yourself.

I've been doing this for a year as a biglaw associate. I will say that I had the good fortune of having no debt left other than parental debt (to which I pay $1k/month). However, I am a crazy hoarder and sock away $2.5k/month in savings, so it's not much different from paying $3.5k/month in loans. I live in a fancy luxury apartment building. I don't spend a lot of money on going out or on vacations, but I'm not exceptionally thrifty, either. I'm also contributing 11% to my 401(k) (which maxes out the tax-exempt contribution) in addition to my taxable savings. I do just fine. You shouldn't be trying to keep up with the Joneses in your first few years. Just pay down your debt and keep your head down.

[Desert Fox]

and lets do quick math here:

First year salary NYC: $160,000
After tax: $93,600
After loan payments (assuming $250k, 10 year repayment): $36k/year, so $57,600.

That's bullshit to live in NYC on. Somehow, you also need to save money, live in an apartment (and not necessarily luxury, just an apartment), and feed yourself.

I've been doing this for a year as a biglaw associate. I will say that I had the good fortune of having no debt left other than parental debt (to which I pay $1k/month). However, I am a crazy hoarder and sock away $2.5k/month in savings, so it's not much different from paying $3.5k/month in loans. I live in a fancy luxury apartment building. I don't spend a lot of money on going out or on vacations, but I'm not exceptionally thrifty, either. I'm also contributing 11% to my 401(k) (which maxes out the tax-exempt contribution) in addition to my taxable savings. I do just fine. You shouldn't be trying to keep up with the Joneses in your first few years. Just pay down your debt and keep your head down.

3.5k a month won't pay off 250k in under 8 years.

[Old Gregg]

I've been doing this for a year as a biglaw associate. I will say that I had the good fortune of having no debt left other than parental debt (to which I pay $1k/month). However, I am a crazy hoarder and sock away $2.5k/month in savings, so it's not much different from paying $3.5k/month in loans. I live in a fancy luxury apartment building. I don't spend a lot of money on going out or on vacations, but I'm not exceptionally thrifty, either. I'm also contributing 11% to my 401(k) (which maxes out the tax-exempt contribution) in addition to my taxable savings. I do just fine. You shouldn't be trying to keep up with the Joneses in your first few years. Just pay down your debt and keep your head down.

This is really a stupid comparison. Putting away $2.5k a month in savings is not the equivalent of paying $3.5k a month in loans (including the $1k you pay for your parents). For a lot of people, you need to SAVE on top of the $3k payments you're making to your loans.

[dixiecupdrinking]

1. It's not biglaw salary that's the problem, it's law school costs. Should firms pay $500k/year to people who haven't even been admitted yet because their law school deans want a third vacation home?
2. Having to live on like $60k net of taxes and loans is like the definition of a first world problem.

1) There both intertwined. No doubt law schools saw it fit to raise tuition because (a) law firm salaries are so high and (b) there are market distortions based on government intervention (i.e., guaranteeing all student loans).

2) Living on $60k in Houston is a breeze. Living on $60k, for your career job, in NYC, is not at all.

I guess I just disagree but it's a matter of perspective. I don't remotely find it a hardship to live in NYC and service loans. I could live better elsewhere I guess, and I wish I weren't throwing money down the federal loan toilet, but I'm maxing 401(k) and haven't ever had to worry about being able to afford anything.

[Old Gregg]

I guess I just disagree but it's a matter of perspective. I don't remotely find it a hardship to live in NYC and service loans. I could live better elsewhere I guess, and I wish I weren't throwing money down the federal loan toilet, but I'm maxing 401(k) and haven't ever had to worry about being able to afford anything.

I never said it was a hardship either. My point is that people think corporate associates are very well off and wealthy. You aren't wealthy with six-figure debt and a $160k salary, and are especially not wealthy with those figures in NYC.