Best firm for aspiring AUSA? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm looking at DC or NYC firms only. Williams & Connolly comes to mind, but are there any other firms that would provide a boost when applying as an AUSA?

[Anonymous User]

I know a few that worked at GDC DC

[Anonymous User]

I'm looking at DC or NYC firms only. Williams & Connolly comes to mind, but are there any other firms that would provide a boost when applying as an AUSA?

Firms that provide trial experience is always good, afaik.

[Elston Gunn]

Such a weird thread. If you have specific options, people might have opinions about which might make the transition either. Unless you have offers at every top NYC and DC firm (which obviously you don't), I don't see how it helps you to have people debate whether the fact that, e.g., DPW sending a bunch of people to the SDNY AUSA (I think? just off memory) is meaningful.

[Anonymous User]

W&C or bust.

But for real, for dc: wilmer, cov, Hogan, or a&p come to mind. These are all great shops though and tbh, really any dc firm will have some connects.

Make sure you work in a white collar or Investigations or complex lit practice group.

For ny, not as sure only spent 1 summer there. I know Dpw and skadden have good looks, not sure who else.

[Anonymous User]

I've spoken w/ a lot of people going to dpw/at dpw and they say there seems to be a bit of a revolving door w/ them and the ausa office.

[dixiecupdrinking]

I think pretty much any firm with a top white collar practice will give you the reputation, work experience, and connections you need. Many or most of the partners you'll work with at any of those firms are ex-AUSAs.

[ClerkAdvisor]

I think pretty much any firm with a top white collar practice will give you the reputation, work experience, and connections you need. Many or most of the partners you'll work with at any of those firms are ex-AUSAs.

Can anyone explain to me how in the world a white collar practice at most firms provides any useful experience for an aspiring AUSA? At the average top firm, white collar is generally a ton of document review, and virtually no litigation experience (I. E., no motions practice, no court appearances). Since the biggest complaint about associates trying to become AUSAs is a lack of trial experience, it seems to me that one should focus on getting that experience....

[Anonymous User]

For NY: Skadden and DPW

[dixiecupdrinking]

I don't disagree about the experience issue as a matter of principle, but for whatever reason USAOs do hire a substantial number of people from biglaw, so.

Also, you might not get courtroom experience, but I think the notion that you get no relevant experience in biglaw is overblown. You learn plenty about case strategy and management as well as writing skills and an ability to think critically about the legal issues.

[Anonymous User]

The white-collar boutiques (morvillo Abramowitz, lankler siffert & wohl) used to be far better than biglaw at placing their associates in USAOs. That has changed a lot since approx. 2008, when big firms started dramatically ramping up their white collar practice and hiring more line AUSAs - I don't think those boutiques have a huge advantage any more.

Frankly, I don't think you can bank on ANY specific firm getting you there anymore - hiring in big districts is competitive to the point of being arbitrary for laterals. You'd probably be better off scoping out which offices regularly hire through the honors program, interning in one of those offices, and applying post clerkship through the honors program.

If you do end up in biglaw, I would follow the advice outlined above - try to work with former AUSAs, especially if they left the office recently (they will still know people) or if they are huge names in the WCC world (working with huge names will be very difficult as a new associate so you might have to pay your dues) and especially try to get on trials with them. For example, Schulte is not traditionally known for an elite litigation practice, but they had a big trial in SDNY last year. Both associates on that trial team got hired by the SDNY USAO, and neither of them had the typical HYS/SDNY/2d cir pedigree.)

[Anonymous User]

I think pretty much any firm with a top white collar practice will give you the reputation, work experience, and connections you need. Many or most of the partners you'll work with at any of those firms are ex-AUSAs.

Can anyone explain to me how in the world a white collar practice at most firms provides any useful experience for an aspiring AUSA? At the average top firm, white collar is generally a ton of document review, and virtually no litigation experience (I. E., no motions practice, no court appearances). Since the biggest complaint about associates trying to become AUSAs is a lack of trial experience, it seems to me that one should focus on getting that experience....

Well, white collar is the only criminal law that biglaw firms do (except for some pro bono stuff, which I think is probably a lot more helpful for trial experience). But I think it's the reverse - ex-AUSAs run white collar departments because of their experience, you don't necessarily end up as an AUSA because were an associate in a white collar department. It seems to me that the pertinent point above isn't that you get useful experience doing white collar; it's that that's where you'll meet ex-AUSAs who can vouch for you. (So I'm not really disagreeing with you.)

I just want to add that even with those connections, it's still EXTREMELY difficult to get into the USAO for the SDNY (which is where the biggest securities filings typically are). I recently talked to someone who made it to equity partner at a top biglaw firm's white collar criminal department. She applied to EDNY and SDNY and the ex-AUSA partners at her firm (who pretty much bring in all the business there) made calls for her, but she still couldn't even get an interview at either office.

Based on my conversation with a couple top dog white collar partners in biglaw, I'd agree with the anon who posted at Sep 23, 2014 2:47 pm, that your best odds are to try to get in after interning at an USAO and doing a top federal clerkship (it doesn't necessarily have to be honors--you'll meet the requirements after a two year clerkship). Going into a USAO through biglaw should be your back-up plan if you aren't able to get in right away. It's also worth noting that by spending 8-10 years as a AUSA in the white collar criminal division, and getting national, or at least local, recognition, you'll be able to skip the bullshit associate years and go into biglaw directly as a partner (if you chose to go to private practice later in your career).

[SLS_AMG]

I think pretty much any firm with a top white collar practice will give you the reputation, work experience, and connections you need. Many or most of the partners you'll work with at any of those firms are ex-AUSAs.

Can anyone explain to me how in the world a white collar practice at most firms provides any useful experience for an aspiring AUSA? At the average top firm, white collar is generally a ton of document review, and virtually no litigation experience (I. E., no motions practice, no court appearances). Since the biggest complaint about associates trying to become AUSAs is a lack of trial experience, it seems to me that one should focus on getting that experience....

Well, white collar is the only criminal law that biglaw firms do (except for some pro bono stuff, which I think is probably a lot more helpful for trial experience). But I think it's the reverse - ex-AUSAs run white collar departments because of their experience, you don't necessarily end up as an AUSA because were an associate in a white collar department. It seems to me that the pertinent point above isn't that you get useful experience doing white collar; it's that that's where you'll meet ex-AUSAs who can vouch for you. (So I'm not really disagreeing with you.)

This. The useful thing for being in top white-collar practices is meeting/working with former AUSAs. My understanding is that the revolving door phenomenon is absolutely true, and you need former AUSAs to make calls and get your resume to the top of the pile.

As for specific firms I think it just depends on the location. In NY I know Davis Polk, Paul Weiss, Debevoise, and Skadden have been known to produce a lot of AUSAs. I think Davis Polk has been singularly dominant in producing them lately. Pretty sure more than half of last year's hires in SDNY were ex-DPW associates.

[Rahviveh]

l. For example, Schulte is not traditionally known for an elite litigation practice, but they had a big trial in SDNY last year. Both associates on that trial team got hired by the SDNY USAO, and neither of them had the typical HYS/SDNY/2d cir pedigree.)

You really can't go wrong with schulte

[Anonymous User]

l. For example, Schulte is not traditionally known for an elite litigation practice, but they had a big trial in SDNY last year. Both associates on that trial team got hired by the SDNY USAO, and neither of them had the typical HYS/SDNY/2d cir pedigree.)

You really can't go wrong with schulte

As long as you manage to get on the team for a once-in-a-decade type of trial.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Just want to clarify that I agree it is not easy or very likely to get an AUSA job from any biglaw firm -- my only point was that I'd guess any top white collar practice will give you the same basic toolkit as far as helping you do it. After that it's probably equal parts hustle and luck no matter where you're at. I don't think it's useful to think in terms of "Debevoise gives you an 18 % chance while DPW gives you a 24% chance."