Going for a tax LLM from a T14? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Stats: 2L, lower T14, little below median, have ~50% tuition scholarship so probably 150K total debt, no relevant WE, struck out at OCI, massmailed 300+ firms.

Let's assume that massmail hustling doesn't work out and I end up with an unpaid internship or maybe a small firm gig this summer, without an expectation of permanent employment. I really like tax so far and let's also assume that continues when I take corporate tax next semester. I'm also aware that the NYU tax LLM job market isn't great. So is the extra 80K cost of a NYU tax LLM worth the maybe 5%-10% chance of finding a debt-servicing job after graduating? Also, would it make a difference that I have a T14 JD instead of the many folks that get the LLM to polish their resume from a lower ranked school?

[Anonymous User]

Also interested in this. T20, top 1/3, less debt but in same boat.

[Johann]

So is the extra 80K cost of a NYU tax LLM worth the maybe 5%-10% chance of finding a debt-servicing job after graduating? Also, would it make a difference that I have a T14 JD instead of the many folks that get the LLM to polish their resume from a lower ranked school?

5-10%, wtf? Half the 2014 class got biglaw. The other half got accounting firms/small tax/trust firms with 6 figure pay. There is obviously some other reason for this, but the T30 kids got better jobs than the T14 people my year.

[Anonymous User]

So is the extra 80K cost of a NYU tax LLM worth the maybe 5%-10% chance of finding a debt-servicing job after graduating? Also, would it make a difference that I have a T14 JD instead of the many folks that get the LLM to polish their resume from a lower ranked school?

5-10%, wtf? Half the 2014 class got biglaw. The other half got accounting firms/small tax/trust firms with 6 figure pay. There is obviously some other reason for this, but the T30 kids got better jobs than the T14 people my year.

Half of the LLM class?

[Johann]

So is the extra 80K cost of a NYU tax LLM worth the maybe 5%-10% chance of finding a debt-servicing job after graduating? Also, would it make a difference that I have a T14 JD instead of the many folks that get the LLM to polish their resume from a lower ranked school?

5-10%, wtf? Half the 2014 class got biglaw. The other half got accounting firms/small tax/trust firms with 6 figure pay. There is obviously some other reason for this, but the T30 kids got better jobs than the T14 people my year.

Half of the LLM class?

Yes.

[Anonymous User]

So is the extra 80K cost of a NYU tax LLM worth the maybe 5%-10% chance of finding a debt-servicing job after graduating? Also, would it make a difference that I have a T14 JD instead of the many folks that get the LLM to polish their resume from a lower ranked school?

5-10%, wtf? Half the 2014 class got biglaw. The other half got accounting firms/small tax/trust firms with 6 figure pay. There is obviously some other reason for this, but the T30 kids got better jobs than the T14 people my year.

Half of the LLM class?

Yes.

Do they actually release job data or is this just your approximation?

[Anonymous User]

So here's the job data... http://www.law.nyu.edu/careerservices/l ... candidates

Definitely not 50% of the class getting biglaw. For c/o 2013, just over 30% got biglaw or midlaw, 33% got a Big 4 accounting firm, 4% got government, and 10% got federal clerkships. 75%+ good outcomes is pretty solid though. I'd bet that a t14 degree will give you at least a decent boost in hiring.

[Pokemon]

Stats: 2L, lower T14, little below median, have ~50% tuition scholarship so probably 150K total debt, no relevant WE, struck out at OCI, massmailed 300+ firms.

Let's assume that massmail hustling doesn't work out and I end up with an unpaid internship or maybe a small firm gig this summer, without an expectation of permanent employment. I really like tax so far and let's also assume that continues when I take corporate tax next semester. I'm also aware that the NYU tax LLM job market isn't great. So is the extra 80K cost of a NYU tax LLM worth the maybe 5%-10% chance of finding a debt-servicing job after graduating? Also, would it make a difference that I have a T14 JD instead of the many folks that get the LLM to polish their resume from a lower ranked school?

I would wait until done with 3L and then think about it. 150k to 250k total debt is a huge, huge difference (it is not just an extra 80k but more since interest adds while in school).

[Anonymous User]

do they give scholarships for LLM? What if you had low grades? Do they look at the LSAT?

[Pokemon]

do they give scholarships for LLM? What if you had low grades? Do they look at the LSAT?

They do... but doubt they care about your LSAT.
http://www.law.nyu.edu/graduateadmissio ... holarships

[Johann]

Little schollys for some t30/40 law review peeps. Tax law review scholly for t14 or class valedictorians

I don't think the application ever asked for my lsat

[Pokemon]

Little schollys for some t30/40 law review peeps. Tax law review scholly for t14 or class valedictorians

I don't think the application ever asked for my lsat

Are you sure about that. T14 students can expect schollys?

[Johann]

Little schollys for some t30/40 law review peeps. Tax law review scholly for t14 or class valedictorians

I don't think the application ever asked for my lsat

Are you sure about that. T14 students can expect schollys?

I'm not sure what the grade cutoff is. I know about half of my class from t14 were on tax law review and the other half weren't. I also know t30 law review missed tax law review while valedictorian of tier 3 made it. So it's not a for sure thing. Maybe top third at t14?

[Anonymous User]

How much does LLM program grades factor into getting employment? Does the Big 4 care about grades? Is there a URM bump like in law school admissions? Do you have to study a lot? What if you never took a pre tax law course, but can show experience through summer associate gigs and other legal work?

[Anonymous User]

Did the students who landed Big 4 people have accounting or CPA license?

[Johann]

How much does LLM program grades factor into getting employment? Does the Big 4 care about grades? Is there a URM bump like in law school admissions? Do you have to study a lot? What if you never took a pre tax law course, but can show experience through summer associate gigs and other legal work?

Grades matter a lot. Ties matter a lot. Fit matters a lot. Big 4 cares about grades but knows they have the second pick at the group. Urm bump I guess? Not sure. Just have to demonstrate an interest in tax. Work or school should suffice. It's like 1l again for studying. Some go hard. Others soak in NYC.

[UnfrozenCaveman]

This only applies if you end up deciding to do the LLM, but if you do the LLM program right after JD, try to get a job for the summer in between graduating with your JD and starting the LLM. You likely won't have the benefit of OCI, but network and mass mail like crazy, get a summer job at a firm, get an offer, apply your summer salary toward tuition for the LLM, and start a year later than you would have thought.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have experience or comments about this:

I'm top 5% at UT/UCLA/Vandy, good grades in all tax classes, V100 SA in tax and permanent offer, but didn't pursue New York until now (3L hiring). I haven't gotten a NY job I really want yet.

I'm assuming it's stupid to do the LLM when I already have a good job and I just should try and lateral.

Is this competitive for a Tax Law Review Scholarship? Have students like this gotten top firms from NYU LLM in the past?

Thanks!

[Johann]

Anyone have experience or comments about this:

I'm top 5% at UT/UCLA/Vandy, good grades in all tax classes, V100 SA in tax and permanent offer, but didn't pursue New York until now (3L hiring). I haven't gotten a NY job I really want yet.

I'm assuming it's stupid to do the LLM when I already have a good job and I just should try and lateral.

Is this competitive for a Tax Law Review Scholarship? Have students like this gotten top firms from NYU LLM in the past?

Thanks!

Yeah id take the job and work for a year. If you still want the NYC firm, going one year later will save you lots of money. You can deduct the entire Llm tuition cost as a business expense. Basically a 30% discount right off the top assuming you have a job. You would have no problem getting a job at nyu assuming the economy holds. You should get tax law review as we'll.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah id take the job and work for a year. If you still want the NYC firm, going one year later will save you lots of money. You can deduct the entire Llm tuition cost as a business expense. Basically a 30% discount right off the top assuming you have a job. You would have no problem getting a job at nyu assuming the economy holds. You should get tax law review as we'll.

Thanks, I appreciate it. That sounds like the best way of handling it.

[Anonymous User]

On a similar notes, any thoughts or experiences with the JD/LLM programs from GULC and NYU that let you finish in only one extra semester? Do firms typically let you start any earlier if you graduate in December?

[Anonymous User]

On a similar notes, any thoughts or experiences with the JD/LLM programs from GULC and NYU that let you finish in only one extra semester? Do firms typically let you start any earlier if you graduate in December?

depends. some do some don't. Though it's rare, some firms would even ask you to drop out from LLM program and start right after SA

[Anonymous User]

On a similar notes, any thoughts or experiences with the JD/LLM programs from GULC and NYU that let you finish in only one extra semester? Do firms typically let you start any earlier if you graduate in December?

depends. some do some don't. Though it's rare, some firms would even ask you to drop out from LLM program and start right after SA

Thanks for this, any advice on how to bring this up with a firm? I have an SA offer that I'm accepting regardless of the answer. The firm has an 100% offer rate but I still feel presumptuous asking.

[Anonymous User]

Curious about this too. I heard GULC have a JD+LLM joint degree program, you need to take one extra semester to finish the LLM degree, but you got to redo the 2L EIW again. So basically let's say I already did my OCI as a 2L and supposed to graduate at 2016 spring, but I strike out/ am not happy with my 2L SA, so I can apply this program, and next summer I can redo EIW again as a 2L and graduate at 2016 winter. Sounds pretty good but I am not sure the real job expectation of this.
Anyone have experience ?

[Anonymous User]

This only applies if you end up deciding to do the LLM, but if you do the LLM program right after JD, try to get a job for the summer in between graduating with your JD and starting the LLM. You likely won't have the benefit of OCI, but network and mass mail like crazy, get a summer job at a firm, get an offer, apply your summer salary toward tuition for the LLM, and start a year later than you would have thought.

It's probably a much better idea to put your efforts into looking for a permanent position during 3L instead of looking for a summer gig. The hiring process is pretty much the same (just went through it myself) and is definitely possible if you're targeting a niche area like tax. It seems like OP only wants the LLM so they can get a job, so putting effort into getting an SA instead of a permanent position doesn't make sense.