Long term career prospects? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I keep hearing about how the chances of making partner at many large NYC firms are extremely small. Is this because people leave voluntarily, or they're forced out, or what? I'm very interested in building a long term career at a firm, and this is perhaps the most concerning thing I hear. I'm specifically curious about Paul Weiss, but also interested to hear about other firms.

[KidStuddi]

Most associates leave on their own terms. Some are shown the door. Either way, making partner at one particular firm is not something you can plan on because it is affected by way too many things out of your control. You cannot control what practice area the firm is going to want to grow in 8-9 years. You can't control when older partners are ready to pass off their clients to a younger generation. You can't control when your firm hires 2 lateral partners that fill your niche one year before you become eligible for partnership. You can't control when a certain sector of the legal world explodes and there's huge demand for it and so your firm makes more partners there than in your area. You can't control when the whole economy goes to shit, and so on.

Making partner, unless you have some magical way of making it rain, requires being at the right place at the right time with the right experience in hand and the right people backing you. You have a relatively small window of opportunity and it can be closed on you without any fuck up on your part. This is why most people look at you funny if you say you're planning on making partner on whatever firm you pick as a clueless 1L/2L. It's not overly naive to think you can be a law firm lifer, but you have to understand that the chances of it happening at the one firm you picked at OCI 10 years before you'd be eligible for partnership are slim. You might have to switch firms a few times before the circumstances line up for you. And there's a non-zero possibility that they never will line up, even if you're very good at your job. The reason it's considered harder to make partner at the "elite" firms because their partnership ranks are more stable than "lesser" firms that have a lot of turnover and defection / poaching that makes for more gaps to fill. Same reason it's easier to get a teaching job at lesser universities: very few people are going to leave Yale to go teach somewhere else, but quite a few would jump at the chance to leave Fordham for a different position and even more would leave Cooley.

[Anonymous User]

Most associates leave on their own terms. Some are shown the door. Either way, making partner at one particular firm is not something you can plan on because it is affected by way too many things out of your control. You cannot control what practice area the firm is going to want to grow in 8-9 years. You can't control when older partners are ready to pass off their clients to a younger generation. You can't control when your firm hires 2 lateral partners that fill your niche one year before you become eligible for partnership. You can't control when a certain sector of the legal world explodes and there's huge demand for it and so your firm makes more partners there than in your area. You can't control when the whole economy goes to shit, and so on.

Making partner, unless you have some magical way of making it rain, requires being at the right place at the right time with the right experience in hand and the right people backing you. You have a relatively small window of opportunity and it can be closed on you without any fuck up on your part. This is why most people look at you funny if you say you're planning on making partner on whatever firm you pick as a clueless 1L/2L. It's not overly naive to think you can be a law firm lifer, but you have to understand that the chances of it happening at the one firm you picked at OCI 10 years before you'd be eligible for partnership are slim. You might have to switch firms a few times before the circumstances line up for you. And there's a non-zero possibility that they never will line up, even if you're very good at your job. The reason it's considered harder to make partner at the "elite" firms because their partnership ranks are more stable than "lesser" firms that have a lot of turnover and defection / poaching that makes for more gaps to fill. Same reason it's easier to get a teaching job at lesser universities: very few people are going to leave Yale to go teach somewhere else, but quite a few would jump at the chance to leave Fordham for a different position and even more would leave Cooley.

Very good post. Kudos.

[Anonymous User]

Most associates leave on their own terms. Some are shown the door. Either way, making partner at one particular firm is not something you can plan on because it is affected by way too many things out of your control. You cannot control what practice area the firm is going to want to grow in 8-9 years. You can't control when older partners are ready to pass off their clients to a younger generation. You can't control when your firm hires 2 lateral partners that fill your niche one year before you become eligible for partnership. You can't control when a certain sector of the legal world explodes and there's huge demand for it and so your firm makes more partners there than in your area. You can't control when the whole economy goes to shit, and so on.

Making partner, unless you have some magical way of making it rain, requires being at the right place at the right time with the right experience in hand and the right people backing you. You have a relatively small window of opportunity and it can be closed on you without any fuck up on your part. This is why most people look at you funny if you say you're planning on making partner on whatever firm you pick as a clueless 1L/2L. It's not overly naive to think you can be a law firm lifer, but you have to understand that the chances of it happening at the one firm you picked at OCI 10 years before you'd be eligible for partnership are slim. You might have to switch firms a few times before the circumstances line up for you. And there's a non-zero possibility that they never will line up, even if you're very good at your job. The reason it's considered harder to make partner at the "elite" firms because their partnership ranks are more stable than "lesser" firms that have a lot of turnover and defection / poaching that makes for more gaps to fill. Same reason it's easier to get a teaching job at lesser universities: very few people are going to leave Yale to go teach somewhere else, but quite a few would jump at the chance to leave Fordham for a different position and even more would leave Cooley.

Very good post. Kudos.

op here, +1, ty

[Luein]

Most associates leave on their own terms. Some are shown the door. Either way, making partner at one particular firm is not something you can plan on because it is affected by way too many things out of your control. You cannot control what practice area the firm is going to want to grow in 8-9 years. You can't control when older partners are ready to pass off their clients to a younger generation. You can't control when your firm hires 2 lateral partners that fill your niche one year before you become eligible for partnership. You can't control when a certain sector of the legal world explodes and there's huge demand for it and so your firm makes more partners there than in your area. You can't control when the whole economy goes to shit, and so on.

Making partner, unless you have some magical way of making it rain, requires being at the right place at the right time with the right experience in hand and the right people backing you. You have a relatively small window of opportunity and it can be closed on you without any fuck up on your part. This is why most people look at you funny if you say you're planning on making partner on whatever firm you pick as a clueless 1L/2L. It's not overly naive to think you can be a law firm lifer, but you have to understand that the chances of it happening at the one firm you picked at OCI 10 years before you'd be eligible for partnership are slim. You might have to switch firms a few times before the circumstances line up for you. And there's a non-zero possibility that they never will line up, even if you're very good at your job. The reason it's considered harder to make partner at the "elite" firms because their partnership ranks are more stable than "lesser" firms that have a lot of turnover and defection / poaching that makes for more gaps to fill. Same reason it's easier to get a teaching job at lesser universities: very few people are going to leave Yale to go teach somewhere else, but quite a few would jump at the chance to leave Fordham for a different position and even more would leave Cooley.

Very good post. Kudos.