Taking midlaw over biglaw? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Looking for some TLS wisdom on my situation, which is as follows:

Biglaw offer at a decent-sized office in secondary market. Pays NYC market. Liked the people. No real prospects for partnership. Biglaw hours.

Midlaw offer at the firm's only office (~50 attorneys, same market). Pay is 110. Hours "target" is in the 1800s, but everyone told me that they rarely reach that, and that's it's not problem if you don't. Specializes in a particular practice area, and while I like that area, I'm not absolutely certain I want to make a career out of it. Pretty much everyone becomes partner unless they leave the firm. Liked the people a lot.

Basically, since my goal is partnership, I know the city where I want to end up, and I don't (really) care about prestige in the Vault/TLS sense (though the midlaw is Chambers Band 1 in its practice area), the midlaw firm sounds awesome. I just want to double check my thinking. Is there any reason not to do this?

[oblig.lawl.ref]

Looking for some TLS wisdom on my situation, which is as follows:

Biglaw offer at a decent-sized office in secondary market. Pays NYC market. Liked the people. No real prospects for partnership. Biglaw hours.

Midlaw offer at the firm's only office (~50 attorneys, same market). Pay is 110. Hours "target" is in the 1800s, but everyone told me that they rarely reach that, and that's it's not problem if you don't. Specializes in a particular practice area, and while I like that area, I'm not absolutely certain I want to make a career out of it. Pretty much everyone becomes partner unless they leave the firm. Liked the people a lot.

Basically, since my goal is partnership, I know the city where I want to end up, and I don't (really) care about prestige in the Vault/TLS sense (though the midlaw is Chambers Band 1 in its practice area), the midlaw firm sounds awesome. I just want to double check my thinking. Is there any reason not to do this?

I am weirded out that there is a Biglaw-sized "target" and that most people say they never reach it. I would be dubious as to whether the hours are really better and, if they are, if they are better because there is a lack of work to go around. That plus the not insignificant pay differential and specialized work would definitely put me off the midlaw firm.

Obviously you feel different and that is fine, just some factors I would consider. Also obviously it is not clear that the biglaw firm offers anything more in regards to the factors, other than pay.

[Anonymous User]

Looking for some TLS wisdom on my situation, which is as follows:

Biglaw offer at a decent-sized office in secondary market. Pays NYC market. Liked the people. No real prospects for partnership. Biglaw hours.

Midlaw offer at the firm's only office (~50 attorneys, same market). Pay is 110. Hours "target" is in the 1800s, but everyone told me that they rarely reach that, and that's it's not problem if you don't. Specializes in a particular practice area, and while I like that area, I'm not absolutely certain I want to make a career out of it. Pretty much everyone becomes partner unless they leave the firm. Liked the people a lot.

Basically, since my goal is partnership, I know the city where I want to end up, and I don't (really) care about prestige in the Vault/TLS sense (though the midlaw is Chambers Band 1 in its practice area), the midlaw firm sounds awesome. I just want to double check my thinking. Is there any reason not to do this?

I am weirded out that there is a Biglaw-sized "target" and that most people say they never reach it. I would be dubious as to whether the hours are really better and, if they are, if they are better because there is a lack of work to go around. That plus the not insignificant pay differential and specialized work would definitely put me off the midlaw firm.

Obviously you feel different and that is fine, just some factors I would consider. Also obviously it is not clear that the biglaw firm offers anything more in regards to the factors, other than pay.

Cool. Thanks for the insight.

[Anonymous User]

Hey OP,

I am also in a similar predicament and I'm leaning toward the mid-law option....

[kalvano]

There is a significant difference in the day-to-day between a 2,000+ billables target and an 1,800 billables target.

[Anonymous User]

Made a similar-ish decision:

Critically engage the presumption that the midlaw option is likely to generate partnership prospects. I know "unless they leave the firm" sounds like a meaningless and obvious catch-all, but it's not always. Look up laterals from this firm to others in the market, and to a lesser extent any other identifiable departure trends. Sometimes people still get pushed out of these firms in a similar manner - though not necessarily as often - as you'd expect in an "up or out" firm in a bigger market.

It's almost certainly true that the partnership prospects are greater at the midlaw firm than a satellite biglaw office. But to use totally arbitrary numbers, if 30% of 1st years at midlaw could conceivably reach partnership and 1% of 1st years at the satellite could, I think the short term salary difference puts the options on even footing even absent any interest in the prestige points. We're talking probably close to $100k in pre-tax salary over two years to compensate for that drop-off. This is even assuming that partnership is 'the' goal, which I'm hesitant to accept but doesn't seem to be the main thrust of your question (note, though, that there is some tension between high likelihood of partnership and the strength of the perks associated with partnership).

tldr OP may be fine - 50 attorney firm is a different scale than what I looked at - but even "great" partnership prospects rarely rise to "more likely than not"; you probably need other reasons to go midlaw over biglaw.

A better lifestyle as an associate and your willingness to commit to the work that the midlaw does certainly count as those additional reasons.

[cslouisck]

Edit: said something that probably should have been posted anonymously.

[Anonymous User]

Are midlaw (50-150 ppl) firms generally less financially-secure than big law firms? Or is it all relative?

[Lacepiece23]

Looking for some TLS wisdom on my situation, which is as follows:

Biglaw offer at a decent-sized office in secondary market. Pays NYC market. Liked the people. No real prospects for partnership. Biglaw hours.

Midlaw offer at the firm's only office (~50 attorneys, same market). Pay is 110. Hours "target" is in the 1800s, but everyone told me that they rarely reach that, and that's it's not problem if you don't. Specializes in a particular practice area, and while I like that area, I'm not absolutely certain I want to make a career out of it. Pretty much everyone becomes partner unless they leave the firm. Liked the people a lot.

Basically, since my goal is partnership, I know the city where I want to end up, and I don't (really) care about prestige in the Vault/TLS sense (though the midlaw is Chambers Band 1 in its practice area), the midlaw firm sounds awesome. I just want to double check my thinking. Is there any reason not to do this?

Sounds like a dream job. I'd personally take it. I took big law in a secondary market over a major market for similar reasons. I'm only a 3L so I do not know if I made the right decision, but I have no regrets so far.

[dood]

sup n00bs, heres some advice from 3rd year associate w/same dilemma 4 years ago.

in sum:
the negatives of midlaw = biglaw
the positives ($) of biglaw > midlaw
therefore biglaw.

better lifestyle is a myth for a variety of reasons, you can use the googles.

also, why do you want to make partner? $$$? bc then you're fucked outta millions dogg. we talking like $300K for a partner at a midlaw firm vs. $1M at a biglaw.

[Anonymous User]

also, why do you want to make partner? $$$? bc then you're fucked outta millions dogg. we talking like $300K for a partner at a midlaw firm vs. $1M at a biglaw.

Autonomy, mostly. I don't care all that much about the money, and I worked in a client/vendor kind of job (with partnership track and all that) before law school. The "do interesting work for clients + build your own business" model was one of the things I liked most about that job. Figure I'd like it again in law.

[Anonymous User]

3L here. I just spent my summer at a 65 attorney firm that pays 95k and has a target of 1800 hours. Just accepted an offer for next year. I didn't have the same choice as you as I struck out at OCI, but there are a few things I think you should consider.

First, I got great experience. Midlaw firms can't afford to give you useless assignments or assignments that will be redone by associates. Most of the time my work was edited slightly and sent to clients or the court. I got to present to multiple clients and was basically doing the work of a first year associate. I think at the right midlaw firm you could be a more experienced attorney after 3 or 4 years than in biglaw.

Second, I think midlaw firms are much more careful about their hiring decisions. They definitely don't really care about their offer rate and some of them don't even report to NALP, so I would be careful of that. Another SA at my firm didn't get an offer.

Third, we got to do a couple fun things like a sporting event and a couple dinners but it certainly was nothing compared to biglaw. We were expected to bill 7 hours a day like associates while I heard of some of my friends billing like 2 or 4 hours some days and sitting around a lot at big firms.

Fourth, the associates and partners at my firm all seemed to go home before 7 every day and a lot of the time the office was pretty empty around 5:30. It's not that there wasn't work to go around, they just seem to have a pretty decent work/life balance. But there were certainly a couple weeks where things heated up and people were there late.

Finally, I don't have any debt so the pay thing isn't a huge deal and I still consider myself very lucky to be paid 95k which is nothing to sneeze at. But 160k is a lot more and I would probably take it if offered.

I hope this is helpful.

[iliketurtles123]

Looking for some TLS wisdom on my situation, which is as follows:

Biglaw offer at a decent-sized office in secondary market. Pays NYC market. Liked the people. No real prospects for partnership. Biglaw hours.

Midlaw offer at the firm's only office (~50 attorneys, same market). Pay is 110. Hours "target" is in the 1800s, but everyone told me that they rarely reach that, and that's it's not problem if you don't. Specializes in a particular practice area, and while I like that area, I'm not absolutely certain I want to make a career out of it. Pretty much everyone becomes partner unless they leave the firm. Liked the people a lot.

Basically, since my goal is partnership, I know the city where I want to end up, and I don't (really) care about prestige in the Vault/TLS sense (though the midlaw is Chambers Band 1 in its practice area), the midlaw firm sounds awesome. I just want to double check my thinking. Is there any reason not to do this?

How much debt do you have?
Also, what is the CoL at the midlaw market?

You can also go biglaw -> midlaw partner later

[Dafaq]

Having just started at a ML firm (nearly 100) I generally agree with the opinions comparing big and mid law (especially lateraling). The difference in opinion regards what ML partners earn. I believe that my firm's partners earn significantly more than just twice the salary of a first year.

[Anonymous User]

How much debt do you have?
Also, what is the CoL at the midlaw market?

You can also go biglaw -> midlaw partner later

Debt: about 65k by graduation
COL: Probably a little above average, but not by much. Minneapolis-ish.

[dood]

Having just started at a ML firm (nearly 100) I generally agree with the opinions comparing big and mid law (especially lateraling). The difference in opinion regards what ML partners earn. I believe that my firm's partners earn significantly more than just twice the salary of a first year.

you believe? i know. see the difference? nub

[Law Sauce]

I wouldn't limit my career if I had BL options. I'd just do it for a few years.