First year Fragomen associate taking questions Forum

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First year Fragomen associate taking questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:13 am

Ask away!

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Re: First year Fragomen associate taking questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:08 am

Compensation? Hours?

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Re: First year Fragomen associate taking questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:37 am

On a slow day during the summer, 9-5:30. On a busy day during the summer, 9-8. During H-1B Cap season (our busy season from January through end of March), usually 9-10pm.

1st year, $115k to $130k.

Adrian Monk

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Re: First year Fragomen associate taking questions

Post by Adrian Monk » Sat Sep 06, 2014 10:18 am

do u know anything in general about irvine/la/san diego offices? would like immigration law, and would love to work in these offices right after graduation, but not too sure if they hire students right out of law school? or do they only hire people with experience? Also, say you work with fragomen, i would imagine you will be working in a niche area, so soon you will become more of a specialist, are u concerned that you may not be able to transition to any other non immigration big law firm? or are u not interested in making that jump? what do u think your exit options will be? thank you!

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Re: First year Fragomen associate taking questions

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Sep 06, 2014 12:13 pm

I don't know about those offices in particular, I am on the East Coast. Fragomen does hire right out of law school, but you need relevant experience. You need to have clerked at the firm during law school, or have business immigration experience from a smaller firm. GPA and school name does not matter as much as experience. They want to know that you can hit the ground running.

I am not too concern about an exit strategy. I like the practice area, the pay and benefits are respectable, and the people are nice. I clerked here during law school, so it was an easy transition. Hoping to work my way up into a leadership role.

Don't think I would want to practice anything else. If, for some reason Fragomen doesn't work out in the long run, my plan is to go to a smaller business immigration firm such as Berry Appleman. Lateral move for this niche field, especially with the Fragomen name behind you, seems possible.

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Re: First year Fragomen associate taking questions

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:53 am

Anonymous User wrote:I don't know about those offices in particular, I am on the East Coast. Fragomen does hire right out of law school, but you need relevant experience. You need to have clerked at the firm during law school, or have business immigration experience from a smaller firm. GPA and school name does not matter as much as experience. They want to know that you can hit the ground running.

I am not too concern about an exit strategy. I like the practice area, the pay and benefits are respectable, and the people are nice. I clerked here during law school, so it was an easy transition. Hoping to work my way up into a leadership role.

Don't think I would want to practice anything else. If, for some reason Fragomen doesn't work out in the long run, my plan is to go to a smaller business immigration firm such as Berry Appleman. Lateral move for this niche field, especially with the Fragomen name behind you, seems possible.
Which year did you clerk for Fragomen? Was there a steep learning curve? How did the experience compare to your other jobs? Did you express interest in staying on board, or did you do a summer associate program?

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penncon

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Re: First year Fragomen associate taking questions

Post by penncon » Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:56 pm

Thank you for answering questions! May I ask what % were you in your class? Also did you work in immigration prior to law school? And as you alluded before Fragomen does not care much about the school but I am concerned if it is not a T20, would they even look my way?

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Re: First year Fragomen associate taking questions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:On a slow day during the summer, 9-5:30. On a busy day during the summer, 9-8. During H-1B Cap season (our busy season from January through end of March), usually 9-10pm.

1st year, $115k to $130k.
What is the compensation scheme like? Lockstep? Merit based? Mixture? Is there a good chance of making partner, and do you have any idea what pay is like at that level?

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Re: First year Fragomen associate taking questions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:11 pm

Not OP but have worked in a non-attorney role at Fragomen. Many attorneys are from outside the T-20, but relevant experience is highly valued given that Fragomen's work is pretty niche. Also to poster above, Fragomen has biglaw PPP even though associate salaries are below market. Can't really speak to prospects of making partner though as that would probably vary by office.

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Re: First year Fragomen associate taking questions

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:47 pm

I'm a 3L headed to do corporate biglaw in Texas, and, I must say, Fragomen in SoCal sounds like my dream job. The fact that I know nothing and am unlikely to learn anything about immigration law any time in the near future complicates things though... I am, however, a native speaker of Chinese and an immigrant myself. What do you look for in laterals? Do you ever hire laterals from the ranks of corporate/M&A practices at V50s?

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Re: First year Fragomen associate taking questions

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:40 am

Original OP here. At penncon, I was in the bottom third of my graduating class at a mid T1 school. I was not on the main journal or any secondary journals, and I did not participate in any clubs. My main selling point was that I clerked for Fragomen and was a work horse, I stayed late, tried to learn everything I could, and never said no to more work.

Fragomen does not particularly care about grades, school name, or journals. They mostly care that you have experience with business immigration and that you do not require hand-holding as a first year associate. You should know how to prepare and review different visa categories, such as H-1B, L, TN, O-1, as well as experience preparing immigrant petitions such as EB-1, EB-2, and EB-3. PERM experience is a plus.

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Re: First year Fragomen associate taking questions

Post by lawschool_2014 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:55 pm

OP, thank you very much for taking questions. How did you come across the law clerk position when you were in law school?

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Re: First year Fragomen associate taking questions

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:46 pm

I agree, thank you! Would you also mind talking about the compensation structure? Is it lockstep?

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Macunaíma

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Re: First year Fragomen associate taking questions

Post by Macunaíma » Mon Oct 13, 2014 8:04 am

Interesting. Does Fragomen ever hire seasoned business immigration practitioners without firm experience? Say, six to eight years of experience solo and of counsel? I've often thought about sending them a resume, but still haven't done it. What are hours like? They charge flat fees for visa petitions, I assume.

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Re: First year Fragomen associate taking questions

Post by crysmissmichelle » Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:19 am

I can't believe I missed this thread before!

Is it worthwhile to send a resume without seeing the firm specifically hiring or to only reply to posted job ops?

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Re: First year Fragomen associate taking questions

Post by BlueLotus » Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:43 am

I have a ton of immigration experience, but it's all humanitarian stuff (U, T, VAWA, SIJS, removal defense, asylum, etc.) Would it be possible to swing over to the business immigration side, whether at Fragomen or a smaller firm? Would Hindi fluency help?

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Macunaíma

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Re: First year Fragomen associate taking questions

Post by Macunaíma » Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:03 am

BlueLotus wrote:I have a ton of immigration experience, but it's all humanitarian stuff (U, T, VAWA, SIJS, removal defense, asylum, etc.) Would it be possible to swing over to the business immigration side, whether at Fragomen or a smaller firm? Would Hindi fluency help?
I don't know about Fragomen's hiring process. I shifted from defensive to affirmative practice as a solo, and then picked up a few of counsel and consultant gigs. Business immigration at base is not terribly difficult, and AILA's InfoNet is an excellent resource to cut your teeth on it.

As for language fluency, I was disappointed with this. I speak a few languages fluently too, but very rarely use them in business immigration. The sponsoring business is the client with most petitions, while the alien the beneficiary. Most of your contact will be with HR people at the sponsoring company. This is very corporate practice. Hindi definitely won't hurt (Indians make up the largest number of H-1B beneficiaries), but it won't get you in the door for a job if you aren't already an attractive candidate.

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