Winston Strawn v. Schulte v. Cadwalader v. Clifford Chance Forum

[Anonymous User]

All NYC.

Interested primarily in corporate/M&A, capital markets, hedge fund work and maybe tax. Not too concerned with work/life balance, work environment, etc. Concerned with firm stability, long term career opportunities (within and outside the firm) and the people.

Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Would also really appreciate thoughts on why or why not a particular firm. Thanks again!

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Would also really appreciate thoughts on why or why not a particular firm. Thanks again!

They're similarly enough regarded that you should go to the one you like the best. Cadwalader was ranked as one of the worst companies in the country to work for. With Stroock, they represented the only two law firms on the list. I'd consider it's reputation there, and whether you want to sign up for that. Clifford Chance is probably the most prestigious one you've listed, but for capital markets it can go any of the four ways. You really need to have specific preferences to be able to distinguish between them.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Would also really appreciate thoughts on why or why not a particular firm. Thanks again!

They're similarly enough regarded that you should go to the one you like the best. Cadwalader was ranked as one of the worst companies in the country to work for. With Stroock, they represented the only two law firms on the list. I'd consider it's reputation there, and whether you want to sign up for that. Clifford Chance is probably the most prestigious one you've listed, but for capital markets it can go any of the four ways. You really need to have specific preferences to be able to distinguish between them.

You probably need a better idea of what you want to do. If you are going to do prestigious hedge fund work, SRZ is the choice. International is probably CC. Unsure of Winston's New York reputation. Summered at Cadwalader and disagree with the worst companies notion. A new chairman is in place and they've actually changed a lot (removed hours requirement for bonuses, adjusted the firms reliance on financial institutions to hedge against any future market downturns.

[911 crisis actor]

Worth noting that CC's NY office was mostly legacy Roger & Well attorneys through the 00's, not sure how much has changed 15 years later. Many of the big rainmakers left. If you can get access to this article, it's worth a read: http://www.americanlawyer.com/id=120262 ... r-New-York

That said, CC is a great name to have on your resume if you leave the States. Just not sure how good their NYC practice is.

[Anonymous User]

IMO, Cadwalader is the easy choice here.

Your choice should really be between Cadwalader and Schulte (both in the Am Law Super Rich firms). The Super Rich firms are on a different trajectory and are really a tier above all other firms (except for a few elite boutiques). The gap between the Super Rich firms and the non-Super Rich firms is only going to widen over the next decade.

Cadwalader is much stronger than Schulte in the practices groups you mentioned other than hedge fund work (especially capital markets; Cadwalader probably has one of the strongest, if not the strongest, cap mkts group in the country right now).

Cadwalader is also much more prestigious overall than Winston/Schulte/CC, at least among finance professionals and those on Wall Street. If I were you, I wouldn’t listen to any of that “worst place to work” talk because it is likely utter nonsense.

[Anonymous User]

IMO, Cadwalader is the easy choice here.

Your choice should really be between Cadwalader and Schulte (both in the Am Law Super Rich firms). The Super Rich firms are on a different trajectory and are really a tier above all other firms (except for a few elite boutiques). The gap between the Super Rich firms and the non-Super Rich firms is only going to widen over the next decade.

Cadwalader is much stronger than Schulte in the practices groups you mentioned other than hedge fund work (especially capital markets; Cadwalader probably has one of the strongest, if not the strongest, cap mkts group in the country right now).

Cadwalader is also much more prestigious overall than Winston/Schulte/CC, at least among finance professionals and those on Wall Street. If I were you, I wouldn’t listen to any of that “worst place to work” talk because it is likely utter nonsense.

go work at cadwalader and see why everyone leaves, including entire depts (their restructuring group left for weil)

cadwalader doesnt give a shit about their employees, only their bottom line and the numbers. and theyll get rid of you in a heartbeat. go there and risk your career

[Anonymous User]

link to this 'super rich' list?

[Anonymous User]

Super Rich links:

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2014/04/28/big ... ead-water/

http://www.americanlawyer.com/id=120265 ... et-Richer-

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Would also really appreciate thoughts on why or why not a particular firm. Thanks again!

They're similarly enough regarded that you should go to the one you like the best. Cadwalader was ranked as one of the worst companies in the country to work for. With Stroock, they represented the only two law firms on the list. I'd consider it's reputation there, and whether you want to sign up for that. Clifford Chance is probably the most prestigious one you've listed, but for capital markets it can go any of the four ways. You really need to have specific preferences to be able to distinguish between them.

You probably need a better idea of what you want to do. If you are going to do prestigious hedge fund work, SRZ is the choice. International is probably CC. Unsure of Winston's New York reputation. Summered at Cadwalader and disagree with the worst companies notion. A new chairman is in place and they've actually changed a lot (removed hours requirement for bonuses, adjusted the firms reliance on financial institutions to hedge against any future market downturns.

I don't mind being yelled at or called names. I would not take it personally, and much prefer this to passive aggression. What frightens me more about Cadwalader is that lawyers of various ranks at various firms say similar things. Between that and the sound proof rooms, it creeped me out. Maybe everyone is wrong, and the rooms just so happen to all be sound proof.

[Anonymous User]

OP mind sharing about when you had your cb with Winston and got an offer?

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Would also really appreciate thoughts on why or why not a particular firm. Thanks again!

They're similarly enough regarded that you should go to the one you like the best. Cadwalader was ranked as one of the worst companies in the country to work for. With Stroock, they represented the only two law firms on the list. I'd consider it's reputation there, and whether you want to sign up for that. Clifford Chance is probably the most prestigious one you've listed, but for capital markets it can go any of the four ways. You really need to have specific preferences to be able to distinguish between them.

You probably need a better idea of what you want to do. If you are going to do prestigious hedge fund work, SRZ is the choice. International is probably CC. Unsure of Winston's New York reputation. Summered at Cadwalader and disagree with the worst companies notion. A new chairman is in place and they've actually changed a lot (removed hours requirement for bonuses, adjusted the firms reliance on financial institutions to hedge against any future market downturns.

I don't mind being yelled at or called names. I would not take it personally, and much prefer this to passive aggression. What frightens me more about Cadwalader is that lawyers of various ranks at various firms say similar things. Between that and the sound proof rooms, it creeped me out. Maybe everyone is wrong, and the rooms just so happen to all be sound proof.

yeah ok. you say that now but wait until it actually happens, and then see how you feel after 1, 2 years...how do you think your morale will be?

[Anonymous User]

I'd go with Schulte, but I may be biased as I accepted my offer today there. I loved the vibe at the callback and I am excited about their practice groups. They also seem to be in awesome shape financially

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Just want to say I am not the person saying they don't mind being yelled at or called names. Those kind of things would be a consideration for me.

Please PM me if you want specifics about my callback and offer timeline. I would be happy to share.

[capsfan]

OP here. Just want to say I am not the person saying they don't mind being yelled at or called names. Those kind of things would be a consideration for me.

Please PM me if you want specifics about my callback and offer timeline. I would be happy to share.

Asked the earlier question about Winston. If you could pm I'd appreciate it.

[antiochus3]

Winston & Strawn and Schulte appear among the ten worst firms for mid-level satisfaction in the American Lawyer's recent survey: http://abovethelaw.com/2014/08/the-best ... tes-speak/

Not sure I'd pick them over CWT on quality of life grounds...

[Anonymous User]

Winston & Strawn and Schulte appear among the ten worst firms for mid-level satisfaction in the American Lawyer's recent survey: http://abovethelaw.com/2014/08/the-best ... tes-speak/

Not sure I'd pick them over CWT on quality of life grounds...

so go inhouse before that time comes

[Anonymous User]

FWIW, Cadwalader partners yelling/name calling and sound proof rooms is just ridiculous and completely untrue.

[Anonymous User]

FWIW, Cadwalader partners yelling/name calling and sound proof rooms is just ridiculous and completely untrue.

Yep. There are yelling partners everywhere but the biggest helper dennis block left the firm awhile ago.

The new chairman james woolery is well known and they've been on some big M&A deals recently. Capital markets work is some of the best.

They also invested a ton in a big McKinsey study to overhaul a lot of things about the firm.

[mvp99]

but can you prnounce cadwalader correctly?

[jbagelboy]

IMO, Cadwalader is the easy choice here.

Your choice should really be between Cadwalader and Schulte (both in the Am Law Super Rich firms). The Super Rich firms are on a different trajectory and are really a tier above all other firms (except for a few elite boutiques). The gap between the Super Rich firms and the non-Super Rich firms is only going to widen over the next decade.

Cadwalader is much stronger than Schulte in the practices groups you mentioned other than hedge fund work (especially capital markets; Cadwalader probably has one of the strongest, if not the strongest, cap mkts group in the country right now).

Cadwalader is also much more prestigious overall than Winston/Schulte/CC, at least among finance professionals and those on Wall Street. If I were you, I wouldn’t listen to any of that “worst place to work” talk because it is likely utter nonsense.

I don't have a dog in this fight since I didn't apply or bid on these firms, but I will say this cap markets claim is patently ridiculous

[dixiecupdrinking]

Would avoid Winston at all costs after their prior no-offers. No reason to tempt fate if you have other offers.

[antiochus3]

IMO, Cadwalader is the easy choice here.

Your choice should really be between Cadwalader and Schulte (both in the Am Law Super Rich firms). The Super Rich firms are on a different trajectory and are really a tier above all other firms (except for a few elite boutiques). The gap between the Super Rich firms and the non-Super Rich firms is only going to widen over the next decade.

Cadwalader is much stronger than Schulte in the practices groups you mentioned other than hedge fund work (especially capital markets; Cadwalader probably has one of the strongest, if not the strongest, cap mkts group in the country right now).

Cadwalader is also much more prestigious overall than Winston/Schulte/CC, at least among finance professionals and those on Wall Street. If I were you, I wouldn’t listen to any of that “worst place to work” talk because it is likely utter nonsense.

I don't have a dog in this fight since I didn't apply or bid on these firms, but I will say this cap markets claim is patently ridiculous

Cadwalader has very strong practices in derivatives and securitization, but I agree that overall it doesn't make sense to say they have one of the strongest capital markets practices.

[Anonymous User]

IMO, Cadwalader is the easy choice here.

Your choice should really be between Cadwalader and Schulte (both in the Am Law Super Rich firms). The Super Rich firms are on a different trajectory and are really a tier above all other firms (except for a few elite boutiques). The gap between the Super Rich firms and the non-Super Rich firms is only going to widen over the next decade.

Cadwalader is much stronger than Schulte in the practices groups you mentioned other than hedge fund work (especially capital markets; Cadwalader probably has one of the strongest, if not the strongest, cap mkts group in the country right now).

Cadwalader is also much more prestigious overall than Winston/Schulte/CC, at least among finance professionals and those on Wall Street. If I were you, I wouldn’t listen to any of that “worst place to work” talk because it is likely utter nonsense.

I don't have a dog in this fight since I didn't apply or bid on these firms, but I will say this cap markets claim is patently ridiculous

Cadwalader's capital markets group is Band 1 Nationwide in the latest Chambers, so to say that it has one of the strongest capital markets groups in the country right now is hardly ridiculous.

http://www.chambers-associate.com/Law/FirmFeature/3518

[jbagelboy]

IMO, Cadwalader is the easy choice here.

Your choice should really be between Cadwalader and Schulte (both in the Am Law Super Rich firms). The Super Rich firms are on a different trajectory and are really a tier above all other firms (except for a few elite boutiques). The gap between the Super Rich firms and the non-Super Rich firms is only going to widen over the next decade.

Cadwalader is much stronger than Schulte in the practices groups you mentioned other than hedge fund work (especially capital markets; Cadwalader probably has one of the strongest, if not the strongest, cap mkts group in the country right now).

Cadwalader is also much more prestigious overall than Winston/Schulte/CC, at least among finance professionals and those on Wall Street. If I were you, I wouldn’t listen to any of that “worst place to work” talk because it is likely utter nonsense.

I don't have a dog in this fight since I didn't apply or bid on these firms, but I will say this cap markets claim is patently ridiculous

Cadwalader's capital markets group is Band 1 Nationwide in the latest Chambers, so to say that it has one of the strongest capital markets groups in the country right now is hardly ridiculous.

http://www.chambers-associate.com/Law/FirmFeature/3518

I don't doubt it has a very strong practice, but the anon above went further to say "the strongest cap mkts group in the country right now"