Reasonable Small Law Pay? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I graduated from a T10 in May, and have an opportunity to do some short term small law work, mostly criminal defense. I have a fedgov job starting in early 2015, so I am only looking for something temporary.

I still have to work out the details, but I think I will most likely be paid hourly. I have no idea what a reasonable hourly rate would be. I just took the July bar, so I am unlicensed at this time. I will be doing trial preparation work and trying cases in court (3rd year practice certificate until I am licensed). I have a year's worth of prosecution experience trying cases in court under my third year practice certificate.

The small law is also in a small city (50K people), so I don't expect to be paid that much, but I still need enough to meet my expenses (around 2000-2500 per month, probably more when student loans come due). Any ideas on a reasonable hourly pay rate? I will be negotiating soon. Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

I graduated from a T10 in May, and have an opportunity to do some short term small law work, mostly criminal defense. I have a fedgov job starting in early 2015, so I am only looking for something temporary.

I still have to work out the details, but I think I will most likely be paid hourly. I have no idea what a reasonable hourly rate would be. I just took the July bar, so I am unlicensed at this time. I will be doing trial preparation work and trying cases in court (3rd year practice certificate until I am licensed). I have a year's worth of prosecution experience trying cases in court under my third year practice certificate.

The small law is also in a small city (50K people), so I don't expect to be paid that much, but I still need enough to meet my expenses (around 2000-2500 per month, probably more when student loans come due). Any ideas on a reasonable hourly pay rate? I will be negotiating soon. Thanks.

IME, based on a similar-sounding small firm I worked at in Ohio, 30kish would be par for the course, and 20-40k not unheard of on either end. You should get some %age of the business you bring in, which is what most small firm associates rely on for a decent paycheck

[kalvano]

Yeah, I would say a small base ($2500 - $3000) plus a percentage of what pull in from clients would be the target.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thanks Anon and kalvano. I will most likely be paid hourly, so it seems like $15-$16 per hour would be on par. I had heard something about them wanting to pay only $10/hr, and if that's the case and they won't budge, I'll probably turn the offer down.

Would I be better off trying to do doc review over the next few months? I could make way more per hour, though it's very possible I wouldn't be able to get anything at all.

[Gotallanswers]

Maybe try the big4, 15 dollar's an hour is nothing especially coming from a T-10 school.

[smallfirmassociate]

If you're not licensed and have little / no experience, then you might not be worth much more to the firm than a low hourly rate. At this point you're likely a glorified paralegal with less knowledge and fewer useful skills but with (hopefully) better research ability. I think $10 - $15 per hour would be fair unless they're working you long hours. Once you get bar exam results, I think $15 - $20 is fair considering it's a temp job, assuming you're being productive.

I would NOT do doc review. Law firm experience is good on a resume. Doc review is not.

[PvblivsScipio]

OP here. Thanks Anon and kalvano. I will most likely be paid hourly, so it seems like $15-$16 per hour would be on par. I had heard something about them wanting to pay only $10/hr, and if that's the case and they won't budge, I'll probably turn the offer down.

Would I be better off trying to do doc review over the next few months? I could make way more per hour, though it's very possible I wouldn't be able to get anything at all.

$10 is ridiculous. I get paid $15 for part time work as a 2L. Granted, I live in a bigger city.

[Robespierre]

Ask for $20/hr. Settle for $15 if necessary. $10 is not reasonable.

[Anonymous User]

If you're not licensed and have little / no experience, then you might not be worth much more to the firm than a low hourly rate. At this point you're likely a glorified paralegal with less knowledge and fewer useful skills but with (hopefully) better research ability. I think $10 - $15 per hour would be fair unless they're working you long hours. Once you get bar exam results, I think $15 - $20 is fair considering it's a temp job, assuming you're being productive.

I would NOT do doc review. Law firm experience is good on a resume. Doc review is not.

Appreciate your input. I think the firm wanted me more for negotiating plea agreements/trying cases in court (can do this under my practice certificate until I am licensed), but I understand I won't be paid as much as a licensed attorney. An attorney is leaving the firm, so I would be helping out with some of his cases.

Are you saying no doc review just because of the resume or other reasons too? I know doc review gives no skills, and I don't plan on putting doc review on my resume. I don't care too much about finding something good for the resume from the temp job. The permanent job I have coming is one that I plan on staying in for a while, so I probably won't be applying to anything else in the near future. By the time I leave my permanent job, I will hopefully have enough to put on my resume from that. Right now, I am just looking for something to pay the bills.

$10 is ridiculous. I get paid $15 for part time work as a 2L. Granted, I live in a bigger city.

Ask for $20/hr. Settle for $15 if necessary. $10 is not reasonable.

Thanks for posting. I made more than $10/hr as a college student doing menial office tasks, so I agree. Not trying to be greedy, but I think $15/hr would be more reasonable.

[Anonymous User]

If it's only a five-hundred dollar difference for them in the long run, they probably will be willing to pay you that if they like you. I had a business with independent contractors before law school, and was basically making what I would have entry level in corporate. Even then I wouldn't prioritize five dollars an hour over the person. Whatever they pay you they can subtract taxes on. If you know you would need additional income with a certain amount it's much better to push for that amount than flip flop later.

[smallfirmassociate]

If you're not licensed and have little / no experience, then you might not be worth much more to the firm than a low hourly rate. At this point you're likely a glorified paralegal with less knowledge and fewer useful skills but with (hopefully) better research ability. I think $10 - $15 per hour would be fair unless they're working you long hours. Once you get bar exam results, I think $15 - $20 is fair considering it's a temp job, assuming you're being productive.

I would NOT do doc review. Law firm experience is good on a resume. Doc review is not.

Appreciate your input. I think the firm wanted me more for negotiating plea agreements/trying cases in court (can do this under my practice certificate until I am licensed), but I understand I won't be paid as much as a licensed attorney. An attorney is leaving the firm, so I would be helping out with some of his cases.

Are you saying no doc review just because of the resume or other reasons too? I know doc review gives no skills, and I don't plan on putting doc review on my resume. I don't care too much about finding something good for the resume from the temp job. The permanent job I have coming is one that I plan on staying in for a while, so I probably won't be applying to anything else in the near future. By the time I leave my permanent job, I will hopefully have enough to put on my resume from that. Right now, I am just looking for something to pay the bills.

$10 is ridiculous. I get paid $15 for part time work as a 2L. Granted, I live in a bigger city.

Ask for $20/hr. Settle for $15 if necessary. $10 is not reasonable.

Thanks for posting. I made more than $10/hr as a college student doing menial office tasks, so I agree. Not trying to be greedy, but I think $15/hr would be more reasonable.

Regarding doc review, I would just say that plans can always change, things can fall through, promises can be broken, real life can happen. If your "permanent" job doesn't happen, you don't want to be stuck with doc review being your only experience, especially when you have a job that will pay a decent amount that you could take instead.