Kirkland (NY) vs. Paul Hastings (NY) vs. Ropes and Gray (NY) Forum

[jusman26]

Hey All. Not trying to humble brag. Just looking for honest advice from those who know better than myself.

I'm deciding between Kirkland and Ellis, Paul Hastings, Ropes and Gray, and Allan and Overy. All NY offices. My initial leaning is towards doing litigation. I am also interested in Healthcare. RG and PH are "nicer reputations" in terms of worklife, while KE is supposedly a "sweatshop." I don't know much about A&O in NY. Any advice is welcome. Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

Out of curiosity, when did you do your callback with Ropes, and when did you get your offer?

[Anonymous User]

where will you get substantive work? which firm actually allows you to do pro-bono so you can at least step inside a court room twice a year? I'm not into lit but that would be my main concern if i was in your position.

[jusman26]

where will you get substantive work? which firm actually allows you to do pro-bono so you can at least step inside a court room twice a year? I'm not into lit but that would be my main concern if i was in your position.

Those are good questions. Will ask people who work there to find out. What do you think in terms of "reputation" vs "work-life balance" kind of a deal and how much do you think this line of thought actually matters in the legal profession or when moving firms down the road perhaps?

[Anonymous User]

KE is a pretty obvious choice here. I know people like to make threads like this to confirm, but this one is a bit of a stretch...

[Anonymous User]

Out of curiosity, when did you do your callback with Ropes, and when did you get your offer?

Same question, but regarding Paul Hastings

[911 crisis actor]

Not sure if A&O's NY office has ever had a profitable year... Without checking Chambers, I recall that Ropes has a pretty big healthcare practice

I don't think the answer is as clearcut as "Go to K&E"

[AnonAssociate]

Your best bet is to schedule follow up interviews or a dinner and ask some questions. Here are some examples but obviously skip any that don't apply:

• What kind of litigation will you be doing? Actual lawsuits? Appellate? Government investigations? Internal investigations? Client counseling?
  Ask each associate: how many cases are you on right now? How big (how many people are staffed) on each case? What is your day-to-day role on each case? (Ideally, people will be on a mix of very large and reasonably small cases)
  Do people formally or informally choose a practice area within litigation? If so, when does that happen? Do you choose or does the firm choose?
  At what level do associates tend to start writing motions? Taking depositions? Arguing motions? Interacting with clients?
  What does it mean to practice healthcare law? Healthcare-related lawsuits? Regulatory work? Etc
  Can you try out healthcare before you have to choose that practice area?

And for what it's worth, take "reputation" information with a big grain of salt. If you hear directly from someone who actually worked at a given firm, then that information is definitely worth considering. But otherwise it's usually pretty faulty information. I work at a firm that actively sells itself as a bit of a sweatshop, telling people in interviews "this is not a lifestyle firm." And my lifestyle is definitely more pleasant and stable than that of my friends' at "lifestyle firms" like ropes and gray.

And look into firms' profitability. Biglaw is hard enough without working with a bunch of partners who are stressed out that there's not enough money coming in.

[Old Gregg]

PH and Ropes will work you just as hard.

[auds1008]

Your best bet is to schedule follow up interviews or a dinner and ask some questions. Here are some examples but obviously skip any that don't apply:

• What kind of litigation will you be doing? Actual lawsuits? Appellate? Government investigations? Internal investigations? Client counseling?
  Ask each associate: how many cases are you on right now? How big (how many people are staffed) on each case? What is your day-to-day role on each case? (Ideally, people will be on a mix of very large and reasonably small cases)
  Do people formally or informally choose a practice area within litigation? If so, when does that happen? Do you choose or does the firm choose?
  At what level do associates tend to start writing motions? Taking depositions? Arguing motions? Interacting with clients?
  What does it mean to practice healthcare law? Healthcare-related lawsuits? Regulatory work? Etc
  Can you try out healthcare before you have to choose that practice area?

And for what it's worth, take "reputation" information with a big grain of salt. If you hear directly from someone who actually worked at a given firm, then that information is definitely worth considering. But otherwise it's usually pretty faulty information. I work at a firm that actively sells itself as a bit of a sweatshop, telling people in interviews "this is not a lifestyle firm." And my lifestyle is definitely more pleasant and stable than that of my friends' at "lifestyle firms" like ropes and gray.

And look into firms' profitability. Biglaw is hard enough without working with a bunch of partners who are stressed out that there's not enough money coming in.

tagging for the questions here. very helpful stuff.

[Anonymous User]

PH and Ropes will work you just as hard.

And pay less. And probably win less.

[jusman26]

PH and Ropes will work you just as hard.

And pay less. And probably win less.

Haha so are you saying you'd rather do Kirkland?