Baker Botts vs Gibson Dunn vs HayBoo vs Weil in Dallas? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have thoughts on these firms? I want to do M&A and I have a pretty strong background in energy, although I'm not committed exclusively to that industry. How do these firms compare in terms of culture, hours, advancement/exit opps etc?

Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have thoughts on these firms? I want to do M&A and I have a pretty strong background in energy, although I'm not committed exclusively to that industry. How do these firms compare in terms of culture, hours, advancement/exit opps etc?

Thanks!

Curious about this, too. I have V&E and Baker Botts Dallas CBs coming up.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have thoughts on these firms? I want to do M&A and I have a pretty strong background in energy, although I'm not committed exclusively to that industry. How do these firms compare in terms of culture, hours, advancement/exit opps etc?

Thanks!

Curious as well, particularly for M&A and private equity. Also would like to know how Akin Gump, V&E, and Sidley Austin play in.

[Anonymous User]

There's some discussion of this on page 5 of the Texas OCI thread: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... &start=100

I was involved in that discussion (and work at one of these firms), and the consensus for M&A was GDC, then Hayboo/BB/Akin, then TK/VE/JD. Note, though, that VE & JD likely have better work/prestige then Hayboo/BB/TK, but are known to be rather difficult groups to work in, which is why they got pushed down in the recommendations.

Weil Dallas is in a strange situation right now, since a lot of the partners left for Sidley and others left for other firms, including one to GDC. I wouldn't go there for M&A (or probably for anything outside of maybe bankruptcy) right now. If they turn things around, you can always lateral over.

[Anonymous User]

HayBoo has a great M&A/corporate group, personality wise. Within the Dallas office, it's known for being very protective of its own culture (in terms of who joins).

[Anonymous User]

Can someone direct me to the year-to-year compensation info of these Texas firms. I found out recently that BB compression is hugeeeeee.

[Anonymous User]

Can someone direct me to the year-to-year compensation info of these Texas firms. I found out recently that BB compression is hugeeeeee.

As someone also considering BB, can you pls explain what you mean by BB's "compression"? (or link very appreciated)

I've seen the payscale, with the tiers and everything, it seems that as long as they pay the bonuses that they supposedly should, the comp is pretty much market, but back-loaded in your 2nd year at each level given much of your comp will come in the form of bonus.

Thanks!!

[Anonymous User]

I think "compression" within this context means that the firm may pay first-year associates market or near market salaries but after the first year pay increases are only minimal. could you give me a link of V&E BB etc compensation for each year?

[Anonymous User]

I doubt there will be a "link(s)" to firms' compensation after the first year. I believe firms in the TX market aren't that transparent about what the pay is after the first year, at least not transparent enough to have it so publicly accessible.

However, I have heard that the NYC firms (Weil is one) and those that have "opted" into the NYC scale (see http://www.law360.com/articles/424696/a ... s-on-texas) in Dallas pay NYC bonuses and are on the same salary scale. I believe the non-NYC firms and those that have not "opted" into the NYC scale have more "compression" and maybe pay smaller bonuses. Anyone have any idea on what exactly the pay scale is for some of these firms?

Also, it is worth noting, that there are several botiques in Dallas that pay above market salaries, at least for first-year/entry level associates. Not sure how the salary and bonuses look after the first-year though. Anyone have any knowledge on that?

[Anonymous User]

Anon up 3 posts, responding to the 2 previous Anons, with what I have seen:

I am a current Baker Botts associate in the Houston office. I don't typically monitor this board, but was sent a link to this thread from a friend. I can confirm that Baker Botts recently raised base salaries for associates who bill over 2000. If you bill under 2000 for a year, you are bumped down to the old Texas scale the following year, but then you'll get the difference made up at bonus time if you get your hours back above 2000.

The scale is:
Level 1 (i.e., 1st year) - $160k
Level 2 (i.e., 2-3 year) - $180k
Level 3 (i.e., 4-6 year) - $230k
Level 4 (i.e., 7-8 year) - $270k

Presumably bonus ranges will be a little lower than they were before this raise in base comp, although I'm not exactly sure what those numbers will be.

EDIT: I just checked, and for bonus ranges, I have the following written down. I don't recall where these numbers came from, and they may not be accurate. But just for full disclosure, here's what I have:

Level 1 - up to $10k
First year level 2 - up to $10k
Subsequent year level 2 - up to $30k
First year level 3 - up to $10k
Subsequent year level 3 - up to $50k
Level 4 - up to $50k

Again, those numbers may not be accurate.

Source: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... &start=100

According to this, BB is basically up NY scale if you make 2k hrs

[Anonymous User]

Stupid question, but for most people in the 160k range year one, do they usually do 8 hrs a day? Or is it more like 10, perhaps more...

Also, as time goes on, do hours change? Or do the hours usually stay the same? Like, is the requirement usually 2k the first 5 years and than a little less as you become a more experienced attorney at the firm?

Factoring in holidays, there just doesnt seem to be a lot of leniency with 2k. That's 50 weeks worth of 8 hours a day. With Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc you damn well better be at work every day it seems. No vacation, no sick days, no pickin up the kids from school, none of that.

[WokeUpInACar]

Stupid question, but for most people in the 160k range year one, do they usually do 8 hrs a day? Or is it more like 10, perhaps more...

Also, as time goes on, do hours change? Or do the hours usually stay the same? Like, is the requirement usually 2k the first 5 years and than a little less as you become a more experienced attorney at the firm?

Factoring in holidays, there just doesnt seem to be a lot of leniency with 2k. That's 50 weeks worth of 8 hours a day. With Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc you damn well better be at work every day it seems. No vacation, no sick days, no pickin up the kids from school, none of that.

[kalvano]

Stupid question, but for most people in the 160k range year one, do they usually do 8 hrs a day? Or is it more like 10, perhaps more...

Also, as time goes on, do hours change? Or do the hours usually stay the same? Like, is the requirement usually 2k the first 5 years and than a little less as you become a more experienced attorney at the firm?

Factoring in holidays, there just doesnt seem to be a lot of leniency with 2k. That's 50 weeks worth of 8 hours a day. With Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc you damn well better be at work every day it seems. No vacation, no sick days, no pickin up the kids from school, none of that.

This is adorable.

[jbagelboy]

Stupid question, but for most people in the 160k range year one, do they usually do 8 hrs a day? Or is it more like 10, perhaps more...

Also, as time goes on, do hours change? Or do the hours usually stay the same? Like, is the requirement usually 2k the first 5 years and than a little less as you become a more experienced attorney at the firm?

Factoring in holidays, there just doesnt seem to be a lot of leniency with 2k. That's 50 weeks worth of 8 hours a day. With Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc you damn well better be at work every day it seems. No vacation, no sick days, no pickin up the kids from school, none of that.

In case you're actually this deluded, this isn't how it works. First, 2k is billable hours to a client, NOT total hours worked. You'll probably be working at least 2500-3000 hrs to bill 2000 of them.

Second, your hours will be more like 900am - 800pm, give or take an hour, six days a week, throughout the year (sometimes more like 9-11pm). You will take some vacation but maybe not much at first until your time management improves.

This is what life is like at a large firm, and 70-75 hrs/wk is a norm with some weeks worse or slightly better than others.

[Tiago Splitter]

Stupid question, but for most people in the 160k range year one, do they usually do 8 hrs a day? Or is it more like 10, perhaps more...

Also, as time goes on, do hours change? Or do the hours usually stay the same? Like, is the requirement usually 2k the first 5 years and than a little less as you become a more experienced attorney at the firm?

Factoring in holidays, there just doesnt seem to be a lot of leniency with 2k. That's 50 weeks worth of 8 hours a day. With Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc you damn well better be at work every day it seems. No vacation, no sick days, no pickin up the kids from school, none of that.

In case you're actually this deluded, this isn't how it works. First, 2k is billable hours to a client, NOT total hours worked. You'll probably be working at least 2500-3000 hrs to bill 2000 of them.

Second, your hours will be more like 900am - 800pm, give or take an hour, six days a week, throughout the year (sometimes more like 9-11pm). You will take some vacation but maybe not much at first until your time management improves.

This is what life is like at a large firm, and 70-75 hrs/wk is a norm with some weeks worse or slightly better than others.

The original post was obviously way off but this overstates the case in the other direction. I would have stopped with "2500-3000 hrs to bill 2000 of them" because saying that and then saying you have to work 70-75 hours a week (i.e. over 3500 hours per year) makes the whole thing nonsensical.

[Anonymous User]

Stupid question, but for most people in the 160k range year one, do they usually do 8 hrs a day? Or is it more like 10, perhaps more...

Also, as time goes on, do hours change? Or do the hours usually stay the same? Like, is the requirement usually 2k the first 5 years and than a little less as you become a more experienced attorney at the firm?

Factoring in holidays, there just doesnt seem to be a lot of leniency with 2k. That's 50 weeks worth of 8 hours a day. With Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc you damn well better be at work every day it seems. No vacation, no sick days, no pickin up the kids from school, none of that.

does anyone else think this dude was actually referring to making 2k hours (in order to get full salary) specifically as a first year? I've heard a lot of people take some time to ramp up in the hours department, and can certainly see why someone might wonder how first years are making the cut.