Jones Day v. Kramer v. Hogan v. Stroock Forum

[Anonymous User]

A mix of offers and callbacks at Hogan Lovells NY, Kramer Levin, Stroock and Jones Day. Leaning towards lit but by no means sure.

Things important to me: 1. Ability to try multiple practice areas and begin as an associate in any of them (since I'm undecided) 2. Kind people, generally sociable culture, no screamers, not "fratty" 3. Decent work/life balance 4. Lean staffing, so juniors get a lot of experience.

Less important: Prestige, exit options, bonuses, Vault ranking.

[Anonymous User]

Really? On those factors, Jones Day is winning? Not what I would expect. Interesting.

[Anonymous User]

Jones Day doesn't make you choose a practice area until 8 months after you start as an associate. That sold me.

Idk about NYC office culture but everyone I met at the national summer associate event in DC was friendly.

Staffing is generally leaner than other firms. There are no screamers. Work life balance is relative. It is not a lifestyle firm by any means.

[Anonymous User]

Jday is great at 1 through 3 and probably the worst at 4 (Jones day and night). Hogan and Kramer are the only ones remotely approaching lifestyle IMO. Stroock is absolutely out

[Anonymous User]

A mix of offers and callbacks at Hogan Lovells NY, Kramer Levin, Stroock and Jones Day. Leaning towards lit but by no means sure.

Things important to me: 1. Ability to try multiple practice areas and begin as an associate in any of them (since I'm undecided) 2. Kind people, generally sociable culture, no screamers, not "fratty" 3. Decent work/life balance 4. Lean staffing, so juniors get a lot of experience.

Less important: Prestige, exit options, bonuses, Vault ranking.

You have two competing considerations in terms of "lean staffing and early responsibility" and "work-life balance."

But I'd say Hogan or Kramer. Jones Day is a bit of a black box on a number of things, but they do have the "Jones Day and Night" moniker for a reason.

[FSK]

New York and Work Life balance don't go together. Sorry bud.

[Anonymous User]

but they do have the "Jones Day and Night" moniker for a reason.

I'm joining Jones Day after graduation and I'm pretty sure this is untrue. If it was "Kramer Levin Night" it would be "Kramer Levin Night and Weekends." Any Big law firm in NYC you will be working a ton of hours, and firms with more insane hours than most (Wachtell or Cravath) don't have this nickname but you can be sure associates are working around the clock.

[arnoldpalmer36]

Hogan is known for lean staffing and a wide range of practice areas, really quality people, and a (relatively speaking for NYC biglaw) better work/life balance. The biggest detractor seems to be below-market bonuses. It would seem to align pretty well with what you specified.

[Anonymous User]

Unfortunately, I don't think you'll find a firm where both #3 and #4 exist. For example, at Stroock, you'll definitely get #4. Its a small firm and deal teams are never more than a few people. In certain, smaller groups, you may be one of only a few juniors. However, that means way more falls on your shoulders and your hours will be crazy. I can't imagine a place where you would be able to find the former and the latter to coexist.

[Anonymous User]

JD definitely satisfies your "not fratty" criterion. Probably the stalest and most milquetoast attorneys you'll find. Definitely stay away from Stroock though if this is important to you.

[Anonymous User]

A mix of offers and callbacks at Hogan Lovells NY, Kramer Levin, Stroock and Jones Day. Leaning towards lit but by no means sure.

Things important to me: 1. Ability to try multiple practice areas and begin as an associate in any of them (since I'm undecided) 2. Kind people, generally sociable culture, no screamers, not "fratty" 3. Decent work/life balance 4. Lean staffing, so juniors get a lot of experience.

Less important: Prestige, exit options, bonuses, Vault ranking.

I am a Stroock alum. Now in house. For the most part, it was a good experience. What practice group are you interested in?

[Anonymous User]

Jday is great at 1 through 3 and probably the worst at 4 (Jones day and night).

they do have the "Jones Day and Night" moniker for a reason.

Yes, the reason being that it was easy to make a play on words. I think it is irresponsible to make blanket statements about a firm's "work-life balance" on TLS without any knowledge about the truth except for a funny moniker someone made up. This, combined with other people doing the same, makes things "conventional wisdom" on TLS.

There is no such thing as work-life balance in big law, especially in NYC. You will work hard everywhere. You will work days, nights, and weekends, everywhere. You will get emails during dinner with your family and you will have to step out - everywhere. There is an argument to be made that some firms are worse about this than others, but this largely depends on practice group, and even more so on the particular partner you work with.

I am not defending Jones Day, per se, I am just saying that it would be delusional to think Jones Day is worse than other law firms because someone thought it would be funny to call it Jones Day, Nights, and Weekends.

[Anonymous User]

Probably the stalest and most milquetoast attorneys you'll find.

You're basing this off of how many of the 2400 attorneys at JD?

[filibuster]

This is just dumb. OP if you want "lifestyle" and "balance" don't do (NYC) biglaw....

[chickenalfredo]

Kramer Levin Out by Seven

[dixiecupdrinking]

If you're undecided about practice areas, your number one consideration should be overall firm quality. JD is way ahead in that regard.

[Anonymous User]

Jday is great at 1 through 3 and probably the worst at 4 (Jones day and night).

they do have the "Jones Day and Night" moniker for a reason.

Yes, the reason being that it was easy to make a play on words. I think it is irresponsible to make blanket statements about a firm's "work-life balance" on TLS without any knowledge about the truth except for a funny moniker someone made up. This, combined with other people doing the same, makes things "conventional wisdom" on TLS.

There is no such thing as work-life balance in big law, especially in NYC. You will work hard everywhere. You will work days, nights, and weekends, everywhere. You will get emails during dinner with your family and you will have to step out - everywhere. There is an argument to be made that some firms are worse about this than others, but this largely depends on practice group, and even more so on the particular partner you work with.

I am not defending Jones Day, per se, I am just saying that it would be delusional to think Jones Day is worse than other law firms because someone thought it would be funny to call it Jones Day, Nights, and Weekends.

Stroock alum from above. I disagree. The way to get work life balance is to pick a niche like Tax/ERISA. You will work hard, but you can have a life.

[Anonymous User]

Do you have a kramer offer? How long between cb and offer?

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

Kramer Levin Out by Seven

also

K&L Gates Never Stay Late
Cravath Swain Moore Always Right Out The Door

[Anonymous User]

Do you have a kramer offer? How long between cb and offer?

Not OP, but CB 8/18 and offer today, so over a week.