terrible grades and biglaw Forum

[terrible_student]

Is there ANY way to get biglaw ever, ever, ever with bottom thirty percent grades (of a TT or TTT)? Has this ever happened? If it can happen, what is the way to do it????

[arklaw13]

Do you have a close relative that is the managing or hiring partner of a firm? Probably not then. Maybe if you speak an obscure language that is in demand or have a particular IP background that a firm is desperately looking for.

But probably not. It's hard enough for bottom 30% at T14 schools to get jobs.

[mw115]

Eventually, yes.

Immediately, extremely unlikely.

[sundance95]

[terrible_student]

Eventually, yes.

Immediately, extremely unlikely.

What is the path into it eventually? Also, what about after a clerkship? Maybe at state appellate or trial level??

[terrible_student]

I mean, surely one of you TLS people has some anecdote about a crazy cousin or uncle that went to Appalachian and graduated dead last in their class that now works at Cravath... Right? People are always saying quasi-impossible stuff online. And boy, I'd sure like to hear that I have a snowball's chance in hell of getting biglaw. Shoot away...

[Calvin Murphy]

Eventually, yes.

Immediately, extremely unlikely.

What is the path into it eventually? Also, what about after a clerkship? Maybe at state appellate or trial level??

"What is the path into it eventually?"

-Develop a book of business so irresistible that they won't even look at the education section on your résumé.
-Develop a breakthrough legal maneuver. (See, e.g., Martin Lipton, The Poison Pill, available at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shareholder_rights_plan.)

"What about after a clerkship? Maybe at . . . ."

-Nope. I mean...I guess an Article III clerkship gives you some extra time to look...but even then firms will look at your grades and choose someone else. It's a buyer's market, and firms are the buyers.

[Anonymous User]

No shot in hell bro


- heavoldgotjuice

[terrible_student]

Any biglaw associates out there with insight?

[OneMoreLawHopeful]

I personally know 3 guys that came close to this hypo, but they went to T50 schools, so not a TT or TTT.

For two of them, they were patent agents that had already worked for biglaw firms, and the firms basically said "If you go to law school we will hire you when you graduate." I don't know that either was bottom 30%, but both came in below median. Obviously this is only something you can set up pre-law-school so it's going to be too late for most people who get their grades back and find out they are in the bottom 30%.

I know one other guy who finally ended up in biglaw just this year, after graduating in the bottom 25% of a T50 in 2009. He set up work with a small firm (~12 attorneys) after graduation, worked for two years, then lateraled to a "regional biglaw" firm (~100 attorneys), then he was invited to "come along" with a partner that left the regional firm for biglaw (and brought clients). Even now he often feels like he's not "fully on the inside" at his biglaw firm because it's hard for him to get assignments from anyone other than the partner he came over with (he's gotten some, so he's not 100% shut-out, but it's been a struggle). Also, it goes without saying that the "jump to biglaw" for him was almost entirely luck, as he had no control over the decision of the partner that he worked for to leave "regional biglaw" for biglaw.

As for someone from a TT or TTT, I've never heard of it.

[094320]

..

[mw115]

Eventually, yes.

Immediately, extremely unlikely.

What is the path into it eventually?

-Develop a book of business so irresistible that they won't even look at the education section on your résumé.

This. My advice: find something you really enjoy doing and try hard to find a small-firm doing that work willing to take you under their wing.

[FSK]

If you're a 1L, the answer is with draw & retake.

[terrible_student]

Eventually, yes.

Immediately, extremely unlikely.

What is the path into it eventually?

-Develop a book of business so irresistible that they won't even look at the education section on your résumé.

This. My advice: find something you really enjoy doing and try hard to find a small-firm doing that work willing to take you under their wing.

What if I could get a state appellate clerkship from a judge who is a family friend? Would this make a difference in getting respectable firm employment?

[terrible_student]

Eventually, yes.

Immediately, extremely unlikely.

What is the path into it eventually?

-Develop a book of business so irresistible that they won't even look at the education section on your résumé.

This. My advice: find something you really enjoy doing and try hard to find a small-firm doing that work willing to take you under their wing.

What if I could get a state appellate clerkship from a judge who is a family friend? Would this make a difference in getting respectable firm employment?.

[Calvin Murphy]

-Develop a breakthrough legal maneuver. (See, e.g., Martin Lipton, The Poison Pill, available at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shareholder_rights_plan.)

Note: Martin Lipton went to NYU and was EIC of their law review, then joined a small firm, and then co-founded WLRK 10 years out of law school, and then created the poison pill 17 years later (and 27 years after graduating law school). So he himself is not a long odds story at all.

This is a good point that I should have mentioned.

[Emma.]

What if I could get a state appellate clerkship from a judge who is a family friend? Would this make a difference in getting respectable firm employment?.

Maybe a little. Probably depends what you mean by "respectable." It likely won't help a lot for market-paying biglaw.

[FSK]

What if I could get a state appellate clerkship from a judge who is a family friend? Would this make a difference in getting respectable firm employment?.

Not really.

[Anonymous User]

there's no science to whether you will get a biglaw job with terrible grades (no matter the school but I'm talking T14). You just have to put your best foot forward and try and try and try and hope for the best. I know someone who got 2 offers from OCI bottom 20% CCN.

[baal hadad]

If you were in my jx w a state appellate clerkship w no biglaw SA no, you would not be attractive to even the regional biglaw firms

[JamMasterJ]

-Develop a breakthrough legal maneuver. (See, e.g., Martin Lipton, The Poison Pill, available at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shareholder_rights_plan.)

Note: Martin Lipton went to NYU and was EIC of their law review, then joined a small firm, and then co-founded WLRK 10 years out of law school, and then created the poison pill 17 years later (and 27 years after graduating law school). So he himself is not a long odds story at all.

This is a good point that I should have mentioned.

Marty Lipton is like the RBG-no-offer of not getting biglaw out of law school

[OneMoreLawHopeful]

What if I could get a state appellate clerkship from a judge who is a family friend? Would this make a difference in getting respectable firm employment?.

This is unlikely to help for like 99% of all state appellate clerkships. Is this some kind of a unicorn situation, e.g. the Delaware Court of Chancery, or the First Department of the New York Supreme Court Appellate division? If so, then this might help. But if this is some random clerkship in Wyoming, then no, this is not going to help.

[ResIpsa21]

Any biglaw associates out there with insight?

I'm a biglaw associate. Everyone else is correct. If your grades don't get you into biglaw in 2L OCI, then you're pretty much never going to make it as an associate. Your only hope is to build a portable book of business and a reputation for solid lawyering. Once you've done that (and I mean 10 years down the road) you might be a candidate for firms looking at lateral partners. Otherwise, you need something seriously special to get firms to overlook your grades, like the IP or work experience that others have mentioned. I don't even think developing a breakthrough legal maneuver would do it. Once you've developed it, biglaw can have other people learn it and do it just as well as you did.

What if I could get a state appellate clerkship from a judge who is a family friend? Would this make a difference in getting respectable firm employment?

Read the judicial clerkship forum for a few minutes and you'll see the same advice over and over: "clerking is not a golden ticket to biglaw." And those guys are talking about federal clerkships, not a state appellate court. The only way this helps you is if you ace all your classes during 2L and 3L, graduate in the top of your class, spend your first year out of law school clerking, and then apply to biglaw during your clerkship. Still not a good chance, but at least remotely possible (IF you get your grades way up).

[mw115]

Respectable firm =/= big law

[ResIpsa21]

Respectable firm =/= big law

Good point. If by respectable you mean "good lawyers, substantive work, decent pay, satisfying quality of life," then you can probably find this with bad grades. The key then will be networking and being a good person to work with.

If by respectable you mean "preftige," then no, you'll never do that with bad grades. Come on, good grades are pretty much the definition of preftige. This is kind of like asking "if I am 5'3" can I play in the NBA???" By definition, no. Unless you're Muggsy Bogues.