Zero callbacks. Please help Forum

[Anonymous User]

I don't know what's wrong with me.
Had 30+ screeners with no luck (from both OCI and mailing). I assure you it was not poor bidding, and my grades are decent from a top school (I severely underperformed based on career services).

I managed to land a callback NOT through screeners but through a personal connection. However, based on my interviewing history it seems like an offer will be difficult to get.

Had a mock interview with career services after OCI to see what's up. They said I was a decent candidate and no major issues stood out.

Maybe it's my nerves? I get severely anxious during the interview and it does show a bit.
I'm wondering how much of a big deal that is? I'm not shaking and sweating but there are small signs of it (such as rambling a bit, tripping over a word or two, etc.).

Also, what are the specific factors that the hiring committee look for and how are they weighed?

[arklaw13]

How heavily have you been targeting NYC firms with large class sizes?

[Anonymous User]

How heavily have you been targeting NYC firms with large class sizes?

Very curious about this. OP's situation sounds similar to someone's at my school who bid 100% DC with median grades.

[Anonymous User]

How heavily have you been targeting NYC firms with large class sizes?

Very curious about this. OP's situation sounds similar to someone's at my school who bid 100% DC with median grades.

OP here
Targeted almost all NYC firms with large class sizes and those that were historically least selective.

[mr.hands]

Sorry to hear about your trouble. First, change your attitude going in. stay positive. It only takes one offer. Second , it sounds ridiculous but smile in every interview. Especially at the beginning. People like people who are engaged and entertained by them. It gives the interviewer self confidence. Finally, try to do some mock interviews w career services until your callback. Good luck OP!

[jbagelboy]

this process is random as fuck. I couldn't even explain with any clarity why I get the interviews or offers I do and don't get the one's I don't. I hope you get more CB's as time goes on - don't take this shit personally though.

[KidStuddi]

Maybe it's my nerves? I get severely anxious during the interview and it does show a bit.
I'm wondering how much of a big deal that is? I'm not shaking and sweating but there are small signs of it (such as rambling a bit, tripping over a word or two, etc.).

Also, what are the specific factors that the hiring committee look for and how are they weighed?

Try procuring xanax and hope it really is just your nerves. Unfortunately, if it's not just that there's not much anyone can say that will actually help you at this point. Without overpowering credentials, a defective personality can and will sink you.

What firms are looking for in interviews is vacuously described as "fit." It's shorthand for they want to like you and will use any criterion they damn well want to make the determination. Trying to instruct someone on how to be likable in a few paragraphs is as absurd as attempting to teach someone how to become a good writer in a few paragraphs. I suspect that's why CSOs hardly even ever try and I won't either. A few nutshelled tips aren't going to make up for the decade(s) of personal development it takes to develop an instinctual command over syntax, body language, and internalized social graces.

Fit is combined with an assessment of your resume and transcript when deciding who gets offers. Different firms weigh the factors differently.

[Anonymous User]

Taking Xanax is awful advice. It may be a little late for this, but if you can, do a mock interview with an actual lawyer (e.g., an alum of your law school) and not career services before your CB if you can. If you don't have anyone you can call on, ask an upperclassman who had success last year at OCI to do a mock with you. Practice makes perfect.

[Anonymous User]

Along the same lines as the poster above. I was super nervous and had a hard time concentrating comfortable speaking during interviews I found adderall specifically adderall xr really helped for long interview days.

If you believe you have an actual case of ADHD it can't hurt to try and get a prescription.

[smallfirmassociate]

I'll go with Occam's razor here: Talk slower and don't ramble.

[09042014]

Definitely take a Xanax.

[Anonymous User]

I'll go with Occam's razor here: Talk slower and don't ramble.

OP here
Yes, I realize that I do that sometimes. Will make a conscious effort not to.

What's frustrating is the fact that I've had some great interviews where I felt like I came off confident, didn't ramble, mingled greatly with the interviewer, and even had the interviewer tell me "so overall you seem like a great addition to our firm. We'll keep in touch"... only to get rejected.

I don't know what it is. I mean, 30 screeners and ZERO callbacks is a huge blow to my confidence...

[09042014]

I'll go with Occam's razor here: Talk slower and don't ramble.

OP here
Yes, I realize that I do that sometimes. Will make a conscious effort not to.

What's frustrating is the fact that I've had some great interviews where I felt like I came off confident, didn't ramble, mingled greatly with the interviewer, and even had the interviewer tell me "so overall you seem like a great addition to our firm. We'll keep in touch"... only to get rejected.

I don't know what it is. I mean, 30 screeners and ZERO callbacks is a huge blow to my confidence...

How are your grades / school?

[Anonymous User]

I'll go with Occam's razor here: Talk slower and don't ramble.

OP here
Yes, I realize that I do that sometimes. Will make a conscious effort not to.

What's frustrating is the fact that I've had some great interviews where I felt like I came off confident, didn't ramble, mingled greatly with the interviewer, and even had the interviewer tell me "so overall you seem like a great addition to our firm. We'll keep in touch"... only to get rejected.

I don't know what it is. I mean, 30 screeners and ZERO callbacks is a huge blow to my confidence...

How are your grades / school?

Slightly above median at Columbia... which makes this even worse given our reputation as a biglaw feeder school

[Anonymous User]

I've talked to big law attorneys on the hiring committee and they said a lot of times it's the gpa cutoff for lottery schools... It's rough but don't take it personally... It's also very much a crapshoot

[09042014]

I'll go with Occam's razor here: Talk slower and don't ramble.

OP here
Yes, I realize that I do that sometimes. Will make a conscious effort not to.

What's frustrating is the fact that I've had some great interviews where I felt like I came off confident, didn't ramble, mingled greatly with the interviewer, and even had the interviewer tell me "so overall you seem like a great addition to our firm. We'll keep in touch"... only to get rejected.

I don't know what it is. I mean, 30 screeners and ZERO callbacks is a huge blow to my confidence...

How are your grades / school?

Slightly above median at Columbia... which makes this even worse given our reputation as a biglaw feeder school

You need to do as many practice interviews with as many people as possible. You are doing some things wrong and you need to figure it out yesterday. Xanax for anxiety is a godsend.

Keep mass mailing.

[Anonymous User]

I would ask one of the firms you didn't get a callback from to find out what was wrong and see if it's something that can be fixed. I also go to CLS, and I heard some firms talking about some of our classmates and what they were doing wrong, and why they thought those people were going to have a rough time.

[Anonymous User]

I would ask one of the firms you didn't get a callback from to find out what was wrong and see if it's something that can be fixed. I also go to CLS, and I heard some firms talking about some of our classmates and what they were doing wrong, and why they thought those people were going to have a rough time.

What were they saying?

[Anonymous User]

I would ask one of the firms you didn't get a callback from to find out what was wrong and see if it's something that can be fixed. I also go to CLS, and I heard some firms talking about some of our classmates and what they were doing wrong, and why they thought those people were going to have a rough time.

I don't think you would get anything meaningful. This is a big HR thing, and you're also assuming that the interviewer both remembers and cares. From their perspective it takes a lot of time to reexamine one candidate, and not only recognize what was bad, but to word it in a way that's constructive for them and not damaging for you.

I agree with staying positive. These things run in cycles, because I think the recruiting process is so new for people that their confidence is shakier. If they experience success then they assume they're good at interviewing so then are confident and do interview better. If they don't it becomes a self-repeating cycle. Own the callback, and don't reflect on the past. Easier than done, but do it.

I agree it's somewhat of a crapshoot, but the fact is that most people with one offer have multiple offers so it's more likely that there's something specific at play. Also, even if it is mostly a crapshoot, thinking is likelier to help than hurt.

[Anonymous User]

I would ask one of the firms you didn't get a callback from to find out what was wrong and see if it's something that can be fixed. I also go to CLS, and I heard some firms talking about some of our classmates and what they were doing wrong, and why they thought those people were going to have a rough time.

A quick rundown of what people were commonly doing wrong would be pretty useful for TLS, I think. Mind sharing?

[Anonymous User]

I would ask one of the firms you didn't get a callback from to find out what was wrong and see if it's something that can be fixed. I also go to CLS, and I heard some firms talking about some of our classmates and what they were doing wrong, and why they thought those people were going to have a rough time.

A quick rundown of what people were commonly doing wrong would be pretty useful for TLS, I think. Mind sharing?

It's pretty specific and would out some of our classmates as well as me. I don't mind sharing the information, but not in the open forum. If you don't mind going unanon, I'll PM you.

[Anonymous User]

I would ask one of the firms you didn't get a callback from to find out what was wrong and see if it's something that can be fixed. I also go to CLS, and I heard some firms talking about some of our classmates and what they were doing wrong, and why they thought those people were going to have a rough time.

I don't think you would get anything meaningful. This is a big HR thing, and you're also assuming that the interviewer both remembers and cares. From their perspective it takes a lot of time to reexamine one candidate, and not only recognize what was bad, but to word it in a way that's constructive for them and not damaging for you.

I agree with staying positive. These things run in cycles, because I think the recruiting process is so new for people that their confidence is shakier. If they experience success then they assume they're good at interviewing so then are confident and do interview better. If they don't it becomes a self-repeating cycle. Own the callback, and don't reflect on the past. Easier than done, but do it.

OP here
Thanks. I'm focusing on nailing the one callback I have and not looking back. I guess they don't know that I have zero callbacks from OCI.

And I was thinking... very small things might ding me right? I mean, when you're looking at so many qualified candidates, the one who whose voice is a bit shaky and is obviously nervous will stand out. As
I go into this "autopilot mode" during the interview due to nerves... Will make a conscious effort not to during the callback.

[glitter178]

I somehow managed to develop a nervous tic during 1L, which made me stress more about people noticing it, which probably made it more noticeable. I'd take a very small dose of Xanax in the morning. Then I'd research the heck out of the firm and attorneys so that I could ask really targeted questions. That would give them a few minutes of talking about themselves during which I could calm down a bit, glean a bit about their personality/ interview style, give me a moment to come up with more organic follow up questions. Of course that won't work in every screener, but it should help in some of them.

[09042014]

I would ask one of the firms you didn't get a callback from to find out what was wrong and see if it's something that can be fixed. I also go to CLS, and I heard some firms talking about some of our classmates and what they were doing wrong, and why they thought those people were going to have a rough time.

I don't think you would get anything meaningful. This is a big HR thing, and you're also assuming that the interviewer both remembers and cares. From their perspective it takes a lot of time to reexamine one candidate, and not only recognize what was bad, but to word it in a way that's constructive for them and not damaging for you.

I agree with staying positive. These things run in cycles, because I think the recruiting process is so new for people that their confidence is shakier. If they experience success then they assume they're good at interviewing so then are confident and do interview better. If they don't it becomes a self-repeating cycle. Own the callback, and don't reflect on the past. Easier than done, but do it.

OP here
Thanks. I'm focusing on nailing the one callback I have and not looking back. I guess they don't know that I have zero callbacks from OCI.

And I was thinking... very small things might ding me right? I mean, when you're looking at so many qualified candidates, the one who whose voice is a bit shaky and is obviously nervous will stand out. As
I go into this "autopilot mode" during the interview due to nerves... Will make a conscious effort not to during the callback.

Here is the thing, median at Columbia isn't terrible, but it's not impressive either. You can get a lot of jobs, but not on grades alone. YOu have to convince them.

[Anonymous User]

I would ask one of the firms you didn't get a callback from to find out what was wrong and see if it's something that can be fixed. I also go to CLS, and I heard some firms talking about some of our classmates and what they were doing wrong, and why they thought those people were going to have a rough time.

A quick rundown of what people were commonly doing wrong would be pretty useful for TLS, I think. Mind sharing?

Different anon, but too nervous and too rehearsed were critiques I had. I wound up getting multiple offers, but have a tendency to be misinterpreted as nervous/anxious when people first meet me. At the end of the day, all that matters is how you are perceived. I also think that hardcore changing yourself is a recipe for failure, because you wind up losing your good qualities along with the bad so become "eh" in an economy where you need to be "ya". Along with fast talking can come quick wit and charisma. Some people might be off put, some will really like you. All in all, I think that you need inherently positive traits so if those come with some negative ones, it's still better than scripting yourself. The challenging thing is that once you start to struggle it's human nature to begin to focus too much on those struggles during current opportunities. This makes it more difficult to connect with the person across the table, because connection requires both people to be consciously in the present. If you're in the past then any connection is only going to be superficial so it's harder to click with them. This is true in any social situation, but more pressing in interviewing, because the opportunities are more finite.