What is this "reaffirming (permanent) offers" business? Forum

[Anonymous User]

So the career office at my law school told me that in this economy, it is way riskier to play the 3L market because firms have less shame about rescinding permanent offers. I was confused because my offer letter says until I have October or whatever. I was then told that if I don't "reaffirm" this offer, firms can (and often do) rescind it.

I have an interview coming up with a different firm so I don't want to accept just yet, but i'm getting nervous that I'm playing with fire and that my offer will be rescinded. I would like to wait until next week to accept, but at that point it will be more than 14 days since receiving the offer.

Can anyone succinctly clarify what the EXACT rules are, in plain english? For one, the NALP provisions are unclear. In one place they state that offers may be rescinded if not reaffirmed, but in another place they say that to rescind, a "reaffirmation provision" is needed in the offer letter. Mine does not have such language.

Also, what is the time line for reaffirming permanent offers? NALP seems to say within 30 days, but elsewhere on TLS people say 14 days.

If anyone has had experience with this and knows the actual plain english rule, I would appreciate to hear!

[2014]

I believe the 14 days is for offers made to students who were not previously employed with the firm while the 30 days is for students who were. I don't know the logistics of "reaffirming" but I imagine it means calling recruiting.

It's all kind of ridiculous since NALP are opted-into guidelines that aren't binding and as at-will employers firms can do whatever they want whenever they want.

[DELG]

I believe the 14 days is for offers made to students who were not previously employed with the firm while the 30 days is for students who were. I don't know the logistics of "reaffirming" but I imagine it means calling recruiting.

It's all kind of ridiculous since NALP are opted-into guidelines that aren't binding and as at-will employers firms can do whatever they want whenever they want.

You mean NALP doesn't roll up a newspaper, go up to the heads of recruiting at firms violating the guidelines, then bop them on the nose while sternly saying, "no!"?

[Dafaq]

Some firms, are like the airlines who overbook. When that happens those that hustle are cool, others not so much. We regret to inform you….keep reading and you’ll run into the word rescind. They have a form for that.

[Anonymous User]

How common are rescinded offers and is there a way to figure out if a particular firm has rescinded offers in the recent past?

[ggocat]

NALP "rules" are not real. They meant nothing in 2009/2010 when firms were rescinding offers from 3Ls and graduates left and right.

What you should do is accept the offer with Firm 1. Then interview with Firm 2, and if you want Firm 2 instead, renege with Firm 1.

[jbiresq]

NALP "rules" are not real. They meant nothing in 2009/2010 when firms were rescinding offers from 3Ls and graduates left and right.

What you should do is accept the offer with Firm 1. Then interview with Firm 2, and if you want Firm 2 instead, renege with Firm 1.

I've never gotten why so many students are afraid of doing this. Yes it's shitty to the firm but if the economy hits the tank they wouldn't think twice about shitcanning some 3L with no skills and no business. So you won't be able to work there in the future. Who cares?

[enibs]

NALP "rules" are not real. They meant nothing in 2009/2010 when firms were rescinding offers from 3Ls and graduates left and right.

What you should do is accept the offer with Firm 1. Then interview with Firm 2, and if you want Firm 2 instead, renege with Firm 1.

I've never gotten why so many students are afraid of doing this. Yes it's shitty to the firm but if the economy hits the tank they wouldn't think twice about shitcanning some 3L with no skills and no business. So you won't be able to work there in the future. Who cares?

Students are afraid of doing this because you're playing with fire. At my firm, for example, we have a policy that we will not interview students who have already accepted with another firm. If you interview with us and don't tell us you've already accepted with another firm, and we then find out, we won't give you an offer. Or if we've given you an offer, we'll rescind it. In the meantime, if you've accepted at Firm 1 and they find out you're interviewing at Firm 2 after having accepted their offer, that may be cause for them to rescind your offer. Then you have no job at either Firm 1 or Firm 2. It has happened.

[plenipotentiary]

NALP "rules" are not real. They meant nothing in 2009/2010 when firms were rescinding offers from 3Ls and graduates left and right.

What you should do is accept the offer with Firm 1. Then interview with Firm 2, and if you want Firm 2 instead, renege with Firm 1.

I've never gotten why so many students are afraid of doing this. Yes it's shitty to the firm but if the economy hits the tank they wouldn't think twice about shitcanning some 3L with no skills and no business. So you won't be able to work there in the future. Who cares?

Because it's unethical behavior. People want to pass C&F.

OP, I think it's unlikely that, after investing $30k+ in you this summer, the firm will rescind your offer just because you took a couple of weeks to accept it. Send the reaffirming email and don't worry too much about it.

This is a situation where your career services' office incentives don't exactly line up with yours; take that into account when you consider their advice. The career services office just wants you to be employed (the employment statistics don't take into account whether you're satisfied with your job) and they're probably concerned with burning bridges with your summer firm if you turn down their offer.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I mean, reneging on a job you've accepted might burn bridges, but it's not something that's going to create any obstacle for C&F. It's employment at will. Partners At Law firms don't get hauled before their local bar association for ethics violations when they Latham people.

[Wild Card]

Timely necro for those of us who've received full-time offers yet want to "trade-up."

The specific Q of "playing with fire" isn't addressed in the most recent threads.

My own Q is whether recruiting depts will contact your current firm's recruiting dept SIMPLY upon receipt of your application.

[OutCold]

Timely necro for those of us who've received full-time offers yet want to "trade-up."

The specific Q of "playing with fire" isn't addressed in the most recent threads.

My own Q is whether recruiting depts will contact your current firm's recruiting dept SIMPLY upon receipt of your application.

No, not in my experience having secured an offer with another firm in the same market during the 3L recruiting period. There are some firms, most notably Cravath, who will call your previous firm should they decide to extend an offer, but Cravath makes you sign something so you are well aware of this.

[Wild Card]

Timely necro for those of us who've received full-time offers yet want to "trade-up."

The specific Q of "playing with fire" isn't addressed in the most recent threads.

My own Q is whether recruiting depts will contact your current firm's recruiting dept SIMPLY upon receipt of your application.

No, not in my experience having secured an offer with another firm in the same market during the 3L recruiting period. There are some firms, most notably Cravath, who will call your previous firm should they decide to extend an offer, but Cravath makes you sign something so you are well aware of this.

TYVM for this clarification. I've seen Cravath ID'd as a firm that does verify, but the approach you describe is the one that makes sense.

I assume that firms receive so many applications that it would be impractical for them to call unless it were necessary. And as a poster above had suggested, the consequences of lying are devastating anyway.

Fuck Career Services for suggesting otherwise.

[NYCounsel]

NALP "rules" are not real. They meant nothing in 2009/2010 when firms were rescinding offers from 3Ls and graduates left and right.

What you should do is accept the offer with Firm 1. Then interview with Firm 2, and if you want Firm 2 instead, renege with Firm 1.

Quoting for truth. Survival instincts 101.

As stated above, not a character and fitness concern.

[OutCold]

Timely necro for those of us who've received full-time offers yet want to "trade-up."

The specific Q of "playing with fire" isn't addressed in the most recent threads.

My own Q is whether recruiting depts will contact your current firm's recruiting dept SIMPLY upon receipt of your application.

No, not in my experience having secured an offer with another firm in the same market during the 3L recruiting period. There are some firms, most notably Cravath, who will call your previous firm should they decide to extend an offer, but Cravath makes you sign something so you are well aware of this.

TYVM for this clarification. I've seen Cravath ID'd as a firm that does verify, but the approach you describe is the one that makes sense.

I assume that firms receive so many applications that it would be impractical for them to call unless it were necessary. And as a poster above had suggested, the consequences of lying are devastating anyway.

Fuck Career Services for suggesting otherwise.

I think firm recruiting departments are aware of the situation when they interview 3Ls. They are trying to poach from other firms' summer programs. If they were to put applicants in danger of having offers revoked, no one would apply. It's just a matter of practicality.