Suspended for a year, do I even have a shot at OCIs?

Throwaway123 · Post by **Throwaway123** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:28 pm

I was suspended for a year from a low T1 school for plagiarism (very minor) but still plagiarism nonetheless. Finished first year with a B average. Have 2+ years professional experience.

Do I have a shot at OCIs and if not, can I ever recover from it?

I should note, it doesn't show up on my academic record as a supension, but it's not a topic I think I should dodge with a potential future employer.

daleearnhardt123 · Post by **daleearnhardt123** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:36 pm

Dude, forget about OCI. That was a pipe dream even without your plagiarism. The situation you've described indicates that you should be asking an entirely different Q. Namely whether or not to drop out.

KD35 · Post by **KD35** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:38 pm

daleearnhardt123 wrote:Dude, forget about OCI. That was a pipe dream even without your plagiarism. The situation you've described indicates that you should be asking an entirely different Q. Namely whether or not to drop out.

In which case, the answer is that you should. Average grades and C&F issues, not looking good. Save the extra money and lost income, drop. And ESPECIALLY don't do OCI, you're wasting time.

SilverE2 · Post by **SilverE2** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:45 pm

I agree that the correct answer is to drop out, but I'm curious—what kind of plagiarism is so minor that it results in a one year suspension with nothing on your record, as opposed to an expulsion. The punishment just isn't something I've heard of before. Maybe the school wants to have their cake and eat it too? (i.e., punish you for plagiarism but collect your full tuition money) (another reason to drop out)

Ohiobumpkin · Post by **Ohiobumpkin** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 12:46 pm

Drop out. With academic dishonesty like that on your record, you'll have a hard time just being allowed to sit for any state's bar. I'm sorry to be so forward, but it's over. Drop out.

fratstar1 · Post by **fratstar1** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:02 pm

probably what everyone else said, but u can probably do OCI (this year/or next depending on whatever your schools weird policy is) and if you land something take it from there i.e. pay for your second year. Are you even competitive? I would find a good administrator who doesnt hate you and knows whats up and badger them with questions because honestly your situation is so specific I don't think anybody can answer this for you.

baal hadad · Post by **baal hadad** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:03 pm

Drop out yesterday

FSK · Post by **FSK** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:06 pm

fratstar1 wrote:probably what everyone else said, but u can probably do OCI (this year/or next depending on whatever your schools weird policy is) and if you land something take it from there i.e. pay for your second year. Are you even competitive? I would find a good administrator who doesnt hate you and knows whats up and badger them with questions because honestly your situation is so specific I don't think anybody can answer this for you.

He has a B average. He's not competitive for anything right now.

jbagelboy · Post by **jbagelboy** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:10 pm

What is a "lower T1"? Like madison or davis?

I generally agree you should drop out

071816 · Post by **071816** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:12 pm

baal hadad wrote:Drop out yesterday

Throwaway123 · Post by **Throwaway123** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:27 pm

SilverE2 wrote:I agree that the correct answer is to drop out, but I'm curious—what kind of plagiarism is so minor that it results in a one year suspension with nothing on your record, as opposed to an expulsion. The punishment just isn't something I've heard of before. Maybe the school wants to have their cake and eat it too? (i.e., punish you for plagiarism but collect your full tuition money) (another reason to drop out)

It was a very minor nongraded assignment. It was a sentence verbatim the same from another students.

Anyway, appreciate your honesty. I am obviously seriously considering dropping out.

TheThriller · Post by **TheThriller** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:37 pm

Throwaway123 wrote:
SilverE2 wrote:I agree that the correct answer is to drop out, but I'm curious—what kind of plagiarism is so minor that it results in a one year suspension with nothing on your record, as opposed to an expulsion. The punishment just isn't something I've heard of before. Maybe the school wants to have their cake and eat it too? (i.e., punish you for plagiarism but collect your full tuition money) (another reason to drop out)
It was a very minor nongraded assignment. It was a sentence verbatim the same from another students.

Anyway, appreciate your honesty. I am obviously seriously considering dropping out.

You're going to have to explain why you did not take course work for a year. Employers will either ask you to explain or call the school and get an explanation. Either the school will tell them or you will have to. What are you gonna tell them? Also, given that you are below median, you should probably think about dropping out regardless of your dishonesty.

heavoldgotjuice · Post by **heavoldgotjuice** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:49 pm

tune in and drop out

JamMasterJ · Post by **JamMasterJ** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:53 pm

chimp wrote:
baal hadad wrote:Drop out yesterday

daleearnhardt123 · Post by **daleearnhardt123** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:59 pm

I echo what one of the previous posters said about the school having it's cake and eating it too. At this point this just looks like a scam, OP. The school ruins any minimal employment chances you may have had AND wants you to stick around for 2 more years tuition? Ya right.

Learn_Live_Hope · Post by **Learn_Live_Hope** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:05 pm

fratstar1 wrote:probably what everyone else said, but u can probably do OCI (this year/or next depending on whatever your schools weird policy is) and if you land something take it from there i.e. pay for your second year. Are you even competitive? I would find a good administrator who doesnt hate you and knows whats up and badger them with questions because honestly your situation is so specific I don't think anybody can answer this for you.

I agree with you in regards to us not knowing the details, and therefore not being able to answer it for him.

transferror · Post by **transferror** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:13 pm

Do OCI and if by some miracle you get a job with a firm, stay put. There's no risk in showing up for interviews and the upside is huge, albeit highly unlikely. Otherwise,

baal hadad wrote:Drop out yesterday

JCougar · Post by **JCougar** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:22 pm

Median at a T1 won't even get this guy or gal interviews, much less an offer from a T1 at median. It's completely pointless.

Seems like a really petty reason for being suspended for a year...but you can (and possibly will) look at this as a huge blessing 10 years down the road when you don't have all that extra debt, and you just dropped out.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:31 pm

Drop out. You're unhireable and query whether you can even pass C&F.

BullShitWithBravado · Post by **BullShitWithBravado** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 2:35 pm

There's no such thing as "minor" plagiarism, just plagiarism. Drop out.

XxSpyKEx · Post by **XxSpyKEx** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:47 pm

SilverE2 wrote:I agree that the correct answer is to drop out, but I'm curious—what kind of plagiarism is so minor that it results in a one year suspension with nothing on your record, as opposed to an expulsion. The punishment just isn't something I've heard of before. Maybe the school wants to have their cake and eat it too? (i.e., punish you for plagiarism but collect your full tuition money) (another reason to drop out)

I'm thinking of an example the dean at my 1L TTT school gave everyone during a speech. Apparently, a student didn't understand that he needed to use quotation marks in addition to the citation when quoting (or simply failed to use the quote marks). That was considered plagarism that resulted in some type of reprimand, but not expulsion. It was extremely TTT. I feel like law schools are really disconnected with the real world when it comes to shit like plagarism. I can find 10 opinions in about 5 minutes where judges quoted something from other judges without using quotation marks.

ResIpsa21 · Post by **ResIpsa21** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:11 pm

Drop out immediately. Advice like the following is well-wishing but ultimately wrong --

transferror wrote:Do OCI and if by some miracle you get a job with a firm, stay put. There's no risk in showing up for interviews and the upside is huge, albeit highly unlikely.

Your "risk in showing up" is that you've wasted a single additional minute of your life thinking that you'll be a lawyer when, in fact, you won't. Drop out and start planning the rest of your life right now. Learn from this mistake and hopefully you will be happier in another profession anyway.

In case it wasn't clear, you can't get a job out of OCI. As several previous posters said, you are not competitive for interviews to begin with, and even if you were, employers will want/need to know why you missed a year of coursework. As soon as you say "plagiarism" you're done. I also think you'd have a lot of trouble sitting for the bar.

Georgia Avenue · Post by **Georgia Avenue** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:03 pm

I'll play devil's advocate. Why does everyone seem to think OP's conduct rises to an automatic, ipso facto C&F fail? Depending on the state, C&F can be lenient even towards academic dishonesty provided OP is completely honest about what he did and proves he's rehabilitated himself. If what OP says is true, there's a big difference between copying an answer on a minor assignment and plagiarizing entire chunks of a term paper. Anyway, do a quick google on C&F denial cases. Here are some things people have been admitted with on their records:

- Falsifying their law school transcripts
- Lying to their law school about being expelled from grad school
- Committing multiple honor code violations and lying to the C&F board about it
- Plagiarism and felony theft conviction in undergrad, lying about it to both law school and C&F (the board voted to admit, state supreme court overturned)

Nothing OP did rises to that level - once again, assuming he is telling the truth. Will his C&F experience be pleasant? Absolutely not. He'll probably have to go before the board in some manner, hire an attorney for thousands of dollars, and lose sleep every night wondering if he'll be admitted. But people have been licensed with worse on their records. If everyone who ever plagiarized was denied admission, C&F denial rates would be much higher than the 0.5% they are right now.

SilverE2 · Post by **SilverE2** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:31 pm

Georgia Avenue wrote:I'll play devil's advocate. Why does everyone seem to think OP's conduct rises to an automatic, ipso facto C&F fail? Depending on the state, C&F can be lenient even towards academic dishonesty provided OP is completely honest about what he did and proves he's rehabilitated himself. If what OP says is true, there's a big difference between copying an answer on a minor assignment and plagiarizing entire chunks of a term paper. Anyway, do a quick google on C&F denial cases. Here are some things people have been admitted with on their records:

- Falsifying their law school transcripts
- Lying to their law school about being expelled from grad school
- Committing multiple honor code violations and lying to the C&F board about it
- Plagiarism and felony theft conviction in undergrad, lying about it to both law school and C&F (the board voted to admit, state supreme court overturned)

Nothing OP did rises to that level - once again, assuming he is telling the truth. Will his C&F experience be pleasant? Absolutely not. He'll probably have to go before the board in some manner, hire an attorney for thousands of dollars, and lose sleep every night wondering if he'll be admitted. But people have been licensed with worse on their records. If everyone who ever plagiarized was denied admission, C&F denial rates would be much higher than the 0.5% they are right now.

Is it worth the extra two years of tuition to find out?

Georgia Avenue · Post by **Georgia Avenue** » Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:36 pm

SilverE2 wrote:Is it worth the extra two years of tuition to find out?

Honestly, probably not. But if OP is looking for some solace, that's the best he's going to do.

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