is starting and running a business considered WE for OCI? Forum

[Anonymous User]

started and ran a business for 2 years. will this be considered work experience for LS OCI or will I judged like a basic K-JD?

[onionz]

started and ran a business for 2 years. will this be considered work experience for LS OCI or will I judged like a basic K-JD?

Well, did you do it after college, in college, in high school? If this was just something you did in college, I'd say no. If you did it after college, then yes.

I also think the WE during OCI thing is overvalued unless you're interviewing at a place like NU where most of your immediate peers you're fighting for callbacks against have WE.

[Anonymous User]

it was after college. thanks for the reply. anyone else?

[Hipster but Athletic]

People aren't robots dude.

[Anonymous User]

People aren't robots dude.

what?

[09042014]

What kind of business.

[Anonymous User]

property management (coastal)

[Anonymous User]

It really all depends on how you sell it. Anyone can start a "business," but did you put in the time, effort, and achieve results that would make it be considered successful, even if only moderately? Even if not successful, did you gain valuable experience that will help you with your future endeavors by working hard and taking calculated risks? Be prepared to talk about it and lessons you've learned. From what it sounds like I'd say it will likely count as WE if you sell it right. If you make it sound like a half-assed thing you ran out of your bedroom that had no clients, then probably not.

[m079]

If it was a legit business (and it sounds like it was), then hell yeah it's WE. It's definitely more substantive WE than being a paralegal. For what it's worth, I have a friend who started and ran a start-up for about 2 years (and it operates to this day) and he made out extremely well in OCI-- and credits his WE as a major reason why.

[2014]

There is no magic box to check it depends how you own it in an interview.

[09042014]

property management (coastal)

Self employed maintenance bro?

Not going to be beneficial for OCI.

[kckool7]

Not if you half-ass it the way you seem to be in this thread. Own that! You started a business! You know what it takes to get clients, and keep them. You've made tough decisions, you understand the management side of equations, and you're better equipped than your peers to connect with clients.

[Chrstgtr]

I also think that WE is overrated at OCI due to how specific legal skills are and the non-transferability of general WE skills to being a lawyer. With that said starting your own business (and more importantly being successful with it) shows grit and desirable intangibles if you sell it correctly.

To answer your initial question, however, yes I would definitely consider it WE if it is (or you can sell it as) a legitimate business.

[JusticeJackson]

.

[m079]

I also think that WE is overrated at OCI due to how specific legal skills are and the non-transferability of general WE skills to being a lawyer. With that said starting your own business (and more importantly being successful with it) shows grit and desirable intangibles if you sell it correctly.

To answer your initial question, however, yes I would definitely consider it WE if it is (or you can sell it as) a legitimate business.

Are you serious? WE is considered important at OCI because good WE IS important. (Not talking about being a paralegal or retail salesman, although both of those can show responsibility and work ethic-- also important.) General WE skills are NOT "non-transferrable." Being able to contribute to a team, being able to take initiative and anticipate your boss's needs, being able to provide valuable customer service to clients, having substantive knowledge in finance, engineering, politics, start-ups-- THAT is non-transferrable. Anyone who went to law school and learned the stuff is going to have the "specific legal skills." Most of those skills will be crap until it's refined in an actual legal position. Some people will be better than others. But if you've obtained venture capital for a start-up, or have had to strategize in a complex matter, that's an experience that can't be taught in law school.

This is why in OCI interviews, if you only try to sell your "legal skills"-- you will NOT do well. If you think you have solid legal skills as a 1L that are more important to an interviewer than your ability to work on a team or your creativity in problem-solving or take initiative on projects, you are sorely mistaken.

[Anonymous User]

started and ran a business for 2 years. will this be considered work experience for LS OCI or will I judged like a basic K-JD?

I started two companies as an undergrad, worked at another tech startup and ended up running it before starting my own (but this one isn't on my resume - not enough room for 1 page). In every interview these have been discussed (including when i was looking at jobs right after undergrad - i took a few years off between JD. Going through 1L OCI and SA search and now going into 2L OCI i'm having similar experiences. Every interviewer or party who has looked at my resume talks about this more than my time in consulting or doing finance work which is directly applicable to the practice group i've expressed interest in.

As someone mentioned above - starting a business (successful or not) shows ambition, grittiness, determination, etc - the first one I started failed, but i came out on top b/c my second one paid for the rest of my school.

It's all going to be about how you spin it on your resume, LinkedIn, and how you talk about it in your interview. It counts as work experience - even if during UG just depends on how you sell it.

IMHO, when you put two resumes side by side and one is sitting at a 3.4 and the other a 3.5 or 3.6 - grade wise they may take the higher one - but if the lower GPA started a company which was successful for 2 years - that may get the interview as well. If you have a compelling story, show willingness to learn, and display to the recruiters how you know how to be a people person - eventually one who could drive business - you may get the job over a higher GPA individual.

One issue you run up against - and I've had this expressed to me - is bc you've started a business, what's to stop you from going and doing that 3-4 years into your legal career (start a firm of your own, a new startup, etc) - always think of a question like this and answer to it as you're going into interviews.

[Anonymous User]

This would be a huge plus at my firm (a NYC biglaw firm).

[09042014]

Not all businesses are the same. Property management is shitty work experience.

[ruski]

dont get why all these bros starting succesful businesses are going to law school. would make 1000x more sense to invest your resources in expanding your business. if you made enough to pay for law school clearly its not failing.

on a side note, i would look down on this as an interviewer. i want juniors who will do the crappy work i give them and do it well. not think they are above this because they once ran their own business. i want someone who will follow direction. law firms are filled with inefficiencies (as everything is encouraged to be done as long as possible to rack up billables), so anyone who was real world experience, particularly in management, will go crazy once they see how a law firm is run. i would view this as a negative as i know this guy will be super bitter and not do the work well.

[Chrstgtr]

I also think that WE is overrated at OCI due to how specific legal skills are and the non-transferability of general WE skills to being a lawyer. With that said starting your own business (and more importantly being successful with it) shows grit and desirable intangibles if you sell it correctly.

To answer your initial question, however, yes I would definitely consider it WE if it is (or you can sell it as) a legitimate business.

Are you serious? WE is considered important at OCI because good WE IS important. (Not talking about being a paralegal or retail salesman, although both of those can show responsibility and work ethic-- also important.) General WE skills are NOT "non-transferrable." Being able to contribute to a team, being able to take initiative and anticipate your boss's needs, being able to provide valuable customer service to clients, having substantive knowledge in finance, engineering, politics, start-ups-- THAT is non-transferrable. Anyone who went to law school and learned the stuff is going to have the "specific legal skills." Most of those skills will be crap until it's refined in an actual legal position. Some people will be better than others. But if you've obtained venture capital for a start-up, or have had to strategize in a complex matter, that's an experience that can't be taught in law school.

This is why in OCI interviews, if you only try to sell your "legal skills"-- you will NOT do well. If you think you have solid legal skills as a 1L that are more important to an interviewer than your ability to work on a team or your creativity in problem-solving or take initiative on projects, you are sorely mistaken.

Soft skills can generally be attained or demonstrated outside of an office setting. All of that is obviously important I just don't think WE is some magical tool that proves all that or that those same people cannot spin some outside experience as such. I think WE helps I just don't think it should be seen as a necessity because the part of WE that is desirable can be demonstrated elsewhere so the OP and others without WE will be just fine.

[Anonymous User]

OP here -- thanks for all the responses. it sounds like I can count on my experience as WE, and it may be a good talking point in an interview - encouraging.

For DF: I dont want to get into too much detail here, but I don't do maintenance. I work in a service industry very similar to biglaw (from my understanding of it). I have clients who have emergencies (they aren't really emergencies but I have to address them as such). I also know how to deal with clients, how to manage them in an efficient manner, how to compromise and how to be professional with an end goal in sight. I think that may show some people that I have at least an ounce of maturity. Also, - per my "shitty" WE - I make much more than a first year biglaw associate and I work about 20 hours a week, I can boast a revenue of near 3/4 of a million in less than 2 years. Not too bad, right?

I'm interested in law because running my business was not intellectually stimulating or rewarding "career" type path.

[Hipster but Athletic]

Real talk: if money from the get go isn't the point, why go through OCI? Why not target a smaller trial shop where you'll get more intellectually challenging work and you'll matter more from day 1?

[loomy78]

Real talk: if money from the get go isn't the point, why go through OCI? Why not target a smaller trial shop where you'll get more intellectually challenging work and you'll matter more from day 1?

OP here - goals are to eventually end up in government or in house at large corporation. From my understanding biglaw is the way to go. currently at a high T14

[Hipster but Athletic]

Also how is 750k revenue in two years much more than a big law associate? If your return is really that high, why not put that back into expanding the company at that ROI and then quench your intellectual curiosity by reading Hegel and writing OP-eds by the pool?

[Anonymous User]

Also how is 750k revenue in two years much more than a big law associate? If your return is really that high, why not put that back into expanding the company at that ROI and then quench your intellectual curiosity by reading Hegel and writing OP-eds by the pool?

just revenue, not profit. and business won't be viable a few years from now - don't want to discuss because it may risk being outed.