SLS OCI Forum

[Anonymous User]

Any thoughts on where our grades put us? Where to bid? Etc.

[Anonymous User]

I'm not sure about our class. Most students from previous years have suggested that there is a bimodal distribution. There is usually a cluster around 2 Hs and then another cluster around 9-10 Hs. But again, I'm not sure if this is true for our year or not. I've heard that the median is usually 4-5 Hs.

*Edited*

[Anonymous User]

PResumably that second mode would be a lot smaller than the first?

[Anonymous User]

PResumably that second mode would be a lot smaller than the first?

Not sure - but I just edited the post above because I was mixing up my #s.

[Anonymous User]

There's been some speculation on this in the past. See: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=163408. Summary: Top 3rd is ~6+, middle 3rd is 3-5, and bottom third is 0–2.

[Anonymous User]

There's been some speculation on this in the past. See: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=163408. Summary: Top 3rd is ~6+, middle 3rd is 3-5, and bottom third is 0–2.

THink there's anything to the claim in that post that there are more Hs out there than the school lets on? I feel like most people I know would be top 1/3ish.

[Anonymous User]

I was first class to switch over to H an P system and at least in my year professors mentioned they could give 45% honors and there really was no hard cutoff.

I would guess that if you had more H than P you should be in contention for any firm and the rest is interview skills and soft factors.

[Anonymous User]

I was first class to switch over to H an P system and at least in my year professors mentioned they could give 45% honors and there really was no hard cutoff.

I would guess that if you had more H than P you should be in contention for any firm and the rest is interview skills and soft factors.

So where does that leave the majority of the class that doesn't have more Hs than Ps? Or better yet, those that only have 1 or 2 Hs?

[Anonymous User]

Per a professor in the context of clerkships, 10 Hs = 10-5%, 9 Hs = 15-10%, 8 Hs = ~25-20%. Matches this very closely: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... d#p4699510

Of course this ignores class prizes. And OCS seemed pretty firm that after around 7 Hs it didn't really matter except for maybe MTO, KVN and W&C.

[Anonymous User]

I was first class to switch over to H an P system and at least in my year professors mentioned they could give 45% honors and there really was no hard cutoff.

I would guess that if you had more H than P you should be in contention for any firm and the rest is interview skills and soft factors.

So where does that leave the majority of the class that doesn't have more Hs than Ps? Or better yet, those that only have 1 or 2 Hs?

From the grade database, I would guess people in that situation just need to bid a bit more cautiously and they will be fine. Plenty of places offer people with 0-20% Hs.

A limitation of the database is that it shows the offers extended, not the offers accepted. That would be like if a law school reported the LSAT of everyone they accepted, not just those that matriculate, which obviously leads to inflated statistics.

[Anonymous User]

I was first class to switch over to H an P system and at least in my year professors mentioned they could give 45% honors and there really was no hard cutoff.

I would guess that if you had more H than P you should be in contention for any firm and the rest is interview skills and soft factors.

So where does that leave the majority of the class that doesn't have more Hs than Ps? Or better yet, those that only have 1 or 2 Hs?

From the grade database, I would guess people in that situation just need to bid a bit more cautiously and they will be fine. Plenty of places offer people with 0-20% Hs.

A limitation of the database is that it shows the offers extended, not the offers accepted. That would be like if a law school reported the LSAT of everyone they accepted, not just those that matriculate, which obviously leads to inflated statistics.

From a hiring standpoint, why would we care about offers accepted over offers extended?

[Anonymous User]

I did OCI for a V5 so i saw a lot of transcripts and the firm extended an offer to someone with 0 Hs and didnt callback some with 3-4 Hs so really you never know. That's the beauty of SLS's grading - interview and resume does matter.

[dead head]

From a hiring standpoint, why would we care about offers accepted over offers extended?

For the same reason that, from an admissions standpoint, your acceptance to Cornell isn't hugely relevant to someone with a 3.6/169 and wants to know her chances at Cornell.

[Anonymous User]

I see they finally put that grade database together they swore they were doing for like the entire time my class was there

But yes, I know people with no Hs that got offers, so if you have even one it's a matter of bidding intelligently (e.g., bidding New York).

Also, that 45% H thing must have really been in the first year of the switch b/c I've never heard of it

[Anonymous User]

Per a professor in the context of clerkships, 10 Hs = 10-5%, 9 Hs = 15-10%, 8 Hs = ~25-20%. Matches this very closely: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... d#p4699510

Of course this ignores class prizes. And OCS seemed pretty firm that after around 7 Hs it didn't really matter except for maybe MTO, KVN and W&C.

Had 7 Hs/6 Ps going through OCI a few years back, no LR and no book prizes. I guessed this put me between top 1/3 and top 1/4, which OCS seemed to confirm. I got a CB with one of these three (and Wachtell), but not the other two. At 7 Hs, there is no firm that you shouldn't bid on if they are your top choice. That doesn't mean you'll get them, but if you're a strong interviewer, don't knock a firm off your list if you've got roughly the same number of Hs and Ps.

[Anonymous User]

So where does that leave the majority of the class that doesn't have more Hs than Ps? Or better yet, those that only have 1 or 2 Hs?

Going through OCI with 2 or fewer Hs is a terrible experience. That said, everyone I know in that position got an offer. As others have said, you should probably bid New York.

[Anonymous User]

If I have more Hs than Ps, is it cool mostly bidding on just DC if that's where I want to be?

[Anonymous User]

I imagine the answer is no, but does anyone know if it matters whether one's Hs come toward the beginning or end of 1L? I.e., is the harm of blowing first quarter remedied at all by by a mixed winter quarter and straight-H spring quarter?

Also, any idea if employers seem to care more about core doctrinal classes vs electives or FedLit?

[Anonymous User]

Is there any value to bidding "safety firms" (i.e. their average Hs is well below your number)? Or once you're beyond their grade cutoff it doesn't matter how far above it you are? Put another way, is it safe to just put in a bunch of targets and a couple reaches, or is that too aggressive?

[Anonymous User]

I imagine the answer is no, but does anyone know if it matters whether one's Hs come toward the beginning or end of 1L? I.e., is the harm of blowing first quarter remedied at all by by a mixed winter quarter and straight-H spring quarter?

Also, any idea if employers seem to care more about core doctrinal classes vs electives or FedLit?

I'd rather have straight Ps in the fall and go 5-6 in the Winter/Spring than the inverse, but it really doesn't matter. When I finished 1L, I had done quite well in the fall, then got straight Ps in the winter and 3/4 Hs in the spring. Not a single interviewer asked about the differences.

I don't think firms really care what courses you got your Hs in. If you got Hs in all 3 LRW classes (and maybe got the Hilmer Oehlmann Prize for Fed Lit) then firms will probably be impressed and you might get a bump.

For the most part, though, it seems like it's about raw numbers. From what I've seen, there are really six groups, and folks in them should bid accordingly:

1. Nearly all Hs. If you kept Ps down to 1-3, you're not going to get culled for grade reasons from any firm. That being said, personality has kept people with these grades from having the variety of offers they would've liked.

2. Mostly Hs. 8-9 Hs, where there are appreciably more Hs than Ps on your transcript. You can probably bid everywhere.

3. Even Hs/Ps. 6-7 Hs. You'll have a hard time at MTO, Keker, W&C, and a few others. But you're probably good everywhere else (and if one of those is your dream firm, it's worth a bid).

4. "Median". Between 3-5 Hs. At this number of Hs, a firm really doesn't have any idea if you're median, below median, above median, or what. They know you're good enough at law school that most are not worried about hiring you. Some DC and SF firms in addition to those listed above will be tough, but with a decent personality and good interviews you should have a number of offers in any market.

5. Below Median. 1-2 Hs. You didn't strike out and snagged a couple of Hs. Especially if they're in a class in the practice area you'd like (say, Labor Law for Employment, or Intro to IP), you can spin it. There are more people in this boat than folks think going through OCI, and nearly all of them get jobs. I'd be wary (especially if I were straight-through UG) of going all-in on DC or SF with these grades, and would bid a lot of big-class NYC firms that would love to have an SLSer in their class. [In past years, some of the very prestigious NYC firms were good targets for these folks: places like Paul Weiss, Skadden, and Simpson all took people my year who had grades like this.]

6. Legit Straight Ps. You can definitely still get a job in this situation, but you should be very concerned. Bid New York. Maybe Silicon Valley. Bid your home market. Don't do something stupid like waste 10 bids on DC. Get as many interviews as you can, interview like a boss, and hustle like mad until you have an offer in hand.

It didn't seem, my year, like having SLR really made a difference with regard to firms, with the exception of MTO and Keker. A few people with the SLR + okay grades + social awkwardness + no work experience combo did worse than they expected.

[Anonymous User]

Speaking of SLR, does anybody know when results come out?

[Anonymous User]

Speaking of SLR, does anybody know when results come out?

End of July, shortly before bidding.

[Anonymous User]

Speaking of SLR, does anybody know when results come out?

End of July, shortly before bidding.

You guys get the sense our class was more like last year, where 115 wrote on, or two years ago, where it was 80ish?

[Anonymous User]

How low can you bid MTO and still be guaranteed an interview? It's so tempting to move it down in favor of the overbid firms but it's my #1 choice...

[Anonymous User]

Speaking of SLR, does anybody know when results come out?

End of July, shortly before bidding.

You guys get the sense our class was more like last year, where 115 wrote on, or two years ago, where it was 80ish?

Too fucking many. As for exactly how many, I don't have that info.