3.25 at Duke -- Critique my Bidlist (Harshly please!) Forum

[Anonymous User]

*Updated to reflect SA's Expected and OCI slots*

Hi all,

This is the first iteration of my bidlist (feel like I have no clue what I am doing.) I sprinkled in a few Dallas firms because of some ties I have there but mainly went NYC based on my GPA and because of advice on this forum. Interested in transactional.

Upward grade trend second semester, 1 year W/E. Duke is 3.3 median.

Firm Name (SA's Expected) (Slots)

1. Proskauer (39) (21)
2. Schulte Roth (34) (21)
3. Winston & Strawn (18) (30)
4. Haynes Boone (DAL) (?) (9)
5. Willkie Farr (48) (21)
6. White & Case (32) (42)
7. KL Gates (DAL) (9) (21)
8. Seward & Kissel (11) (21)
9. Cahill (40) (21)
10. Clifford Chance (24) (21)
11. Lowenstein Sandler (26) (21)
12. Linklaters (22) (42)
13. Latham (38) (24)
14. Curtis Mallet (8) (21)
15. Morgan Lewis (12) (21)
16. Dechert (11) (21)
17. Vinson & Elkins (DAL) (9) (42)
18. Norton Rose Fulbright (DAL) (?) (21)
19. Shearman Sterling (43) (42)
20. Bracewell Giuliani (7) (21)
21. Thompson & Knight (DAL) (?) (21)
22. Strook & Strook (23) (21)
23. Allen & Overy (15) (21)
24. Baker Botts (DAL) (10) (27)
25. Weil (46) (63)
26. Milbank (36) (42)
27. Cadwalader (27) (84)
28. Fried Frank (34) (21)
29. Paul Weiss (84) (21)
30. OPEN

THANK YOU ALL!

[Anonymous User]

Texas firms median is at around top 25% at my school .... do they dip below median at Duke?

[Anonymous User]

I believe Texas firms will dip below median slightly if ties exist. Not easy, but definitely possible.

[84651846190]

I believe Texas firms will dip below median slightly if ties exist. Not easy, but definitely possible.

...but probably not BB, V&E or NRF.

[Anonymous User]

I would agree that ties might help a little.. but I don't know if it justifies putting Haynes Boone so high.. it could very well displace a good interview with a NYC firm.

I believe Texas firms will dip below median slightly if ties exist. Not easy, but definitely possible.

...but probably not BB, V&E or NRF.

Agreed. Also Locke Lord and Haynes medians are well above the median at my t-14.

[Anonymous User]

OP here, should I stack all the Dallas bids in the mid teens range?

I would also consider removing some of the Dallas firms if the consensus is that I have no shot from below median.

[Anonymous User]

Can't really tell you where to put Dallas bids because I don't know the bid/interview ratios.

It's not that you have absolutely zero shot at those firms but that you might have a substantially better shot at other firms in NYC... If I was you I would definitely try to get some Texas firms but not at the expense of losing other interviews with less selective NYC firm. If you're being conservative then the list is fine.

I quote someone from a different thread.

"Here is something that everyone here needs to actually take to heart.

Be conservative. About everything.

Don't take risks, don't try to go for the home run, don't think you're smarter than the system. Be conservative. Be conservative in how you bid, in how you dress, in how you interview. The goal is first and foremost to get A job. It is not to get a job at Skadden or Cravath. It is to get any job you can possibly get. Don't do anything that lowers yoru chances of landing a job. If that means you do something that forces you to work at Willkie when, if you took a risk, you had a shot at Cleary, then that's what you do. Getting a job is the most important thing here. Don't fuck that up by thinking you're one of Michigan's "special snowflakes." You're not."

[Anonymous User]

So OP, before I answer your question, did you look at our CSO gpa statistics? We can't get too much into detail due to TLS rules but I mean some of your firm rankings sorta don't make sense if we assume those statistics are accurate. But unless you're acting on some other information... let us know.

[MarkRenton]

Can't really tell you where to put Dallas bids because I don't know the bid/interview ratios.

It's not that you have absolutely zero shot at those firms but that you might have a substantially better shot at other firms in NYC... If I was you I would definitely try to get some Texas firms but not at the expense of losing other interviews with less selective NYC firm. If you're being conservative then the list is fine.

I quote someone from a different thread.

"Here is something that everyone here needs to actually take to heart.

Be conservative. About everything.

Don't take risks, don't try to go for the home run, don't think you're smarter than the system. Be conservative. Be conservative in how you bid, in how you dress, in how you interview. The goal is first and foremost to get A job. It is not to get a job at Skadden or Cravath. It is to get any job you can possibly get. Don't do anything that lowers yoru chances of landing a job. If that means you do something that forces you to work at Willkie when, if you took a risk, you had a shot at Cleary, then that's what you do. Getting a job is the most important thing here. Don't fuck that up by thinking you're one of Michigan's "special snowflakes." You're not."

This is really good advice. As a graduate in the work force, you really come to realize that landing a job >>>>>> prestige of that job. Any reputable NYC (or otherwise) firm provides great work and offers an environment where you'll hate your life. Getting caught up in prestige and vault rankings is something that stops mattering completely once you get out of law school. So bid accordingly.

[Anonymous User]

So OP, before I answer your question, did you look at our CSO gpa statistics? We can't get too much into detail due to TLS rules but I mean some of your firm rankings sorta don't make sense if we assume those statistics are accurate. But unless you're acting on some other information... let us know.

I did look at the stats but the problem is that with a 3.25 I fall below basically every single median. Sure some firms are more grade selective than others but I did not find that data extremely helpful especially since I have heard it is skewed higher because of multiple offers people get with higher GPA's.

Regardless, are there any specific changes I should make or firms I should have higher that will consider me with a below median GPA?

[dabbadon8]

The bidlist cannot be critiqued without the number of slots available. My year Cahill had only 25 spots and you probably wouldn't get them that low. Re-post with the number of slots. Also helpful would be the number of expected SAs in the office you're targeting.

[Anonymous User]

You should be working with your career counselor on this, and with your 3L friends. Your career counselor can give you a list of 3Ls who summered at each firm, too, if you want to reach out to them, or you can just stalk 3Ls on Linkedin to see where folks are summering, and then email/Facebook message them for advice. I don't know how close you are with your LEAD fellow but they can probably hook you up too. I wouldn't take advice from people on this site who don't know the specifics of recruitment at Duke.

[Anonymous User]

The bidlist cannot be critiqued without the number of slots available. My year Cahill had only 25 spots and you probably wouldn't get them that low. Re-post with the number of slots. Also helpful would be the number of expected SAs in the office you're targeting.

Reposted to reflect this! Thanks for the advice. I'm thinking about bidding Dallas at the bottom and hoping nobody else is going for it.

[CicerBRo]

Make sure you bid your preferences first. Your interview is going to matter a lot but your list isn't unrealistic.

[Anonymous User]

You should be working with your career counselor on this, and with your 3L friends. Your career counselor can give you a list of 3Ls who summered at each firm, too, if you want to reach out to them, or you can just stalk 3Ls on Linkedin to see where folks are summering, and then email/Facebook message them for advice. I don't know how close you are with your LEAD fellow but they can probably hook you up too. I wouldn't take advice from people on this site who don't know the specifics of recruitment at Duke.

So it's pure lottery so no issue of pre-select. Not OP btw.

[NYSprague]

You should be working with your career counselor on this, and with your 3L friends. Your career counselor can give you a list of 3Ls who summered at each firm, too, if you want to reach out to them, or you can just stalk 3Ls on Linkedin to see where folks are summering, and then email/Facebook message them for advice. I don't know how close you are with your LEAD fellow but they can probably hook you up too. I wouldn't take advice from people on this site who don't know the specifics of recruitment at Duke.

So it's pure lottery so no issue of pre-select. Not OP btw.

I don't know the specifics of Duke. I do wonder why OP puts a firm expecting 7 or so SAs above firms with larger classes.

[Anonymous User]

OP here, I put HaynesBoone high bc they only have 9 interview slots.

This is all so confusing... Do I even have a shot at biglaw with 3.25 or am I setting myself up to be disappointed?

Btw, I am mass mailing after July 4

[dabbadon8]

OP here, I put HaynesBoone high bc they only have 9 interview slots.

This is all so confusing... Do I even have a shot at biglaw with 3.25 or am I setting myself up to be disappointed?

Btw, I am mass mailing after July 4

Probably will strike out in NYC unless your work experience is stellar or you have some other X factor. Texas may happen if your ties are legit. I wouldn't get your hopes up but it could happen. If set on big law you might want to shoot to clerk but that would mean going lit most likely. Get in good with cso, I know they have pulled some strings to get people big law who were borderline.

[Anonymous User]

"probably will strike out"

Is this TCR?

[NYSprague]

"probably will strike out"

Is this TCR?

I don't know about Duke, but I wouldn't think it is generally true. I'm not sure if OP is maximizing chances to get in front of as many firms who will give him a callback as possible.

I will clear out of this thread because I don't want to give bad advice.

[Anonymous User]

OP here, so how do I maximize my chances?

[Anonymous User]

OP, I would guess for NY your best shots are firms like Lowenstein Sandler, Cadwalader, K&L Gates, Seward & Kissel, etc. You have an uphill battle, but you are not out of the game. I don't think this is a "probably will strike out" situation, but don't waste bids on V10 firms. Check out which firms have larger class sizes on nalpdirectory.com. Your goal should be to start contacting right now firms that are not coming to OCI that are in your current market to line up interviews so you can have those under your belt by the time OCI starts.

If you want TX, did you sign up for OTIP? Maximize the hell out of that.

[Anonymous User]

OP, I would guess for NY your best shots are firms like Lowenstein Sandler, Cadwalader, K&L Gates, Seward & Kissel, etc. You have an uphill battle, but you are not out of the game. I don't think this is a "probably will strike out" situation, but don't waste bids on V10 firms. Check out which firms have larger class sizes on nalpdirectory.com. Your goal should be to start contacting right now firms that are not coming to OCI that are in your current market to line up interviews so you can have those under your belt by the time OCI starts.

If you want TX, did you sign up for OTIP? Maximize the hell out of that.

I did sign up for OTIP, hoping to get a few screeners from that. I'll drop the V10's even though they're at the bottom of my list.

[Anonymous User]

Any new feedback with the update on the post? Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Tag. In nearly the exact same situation as you (except no interest in TX). Very little input since I have no idea what the hell is going on.

The biggest problem I've had so far is trying to determine what NYC firms are actually willing to dip below 3.3 in the class. In my experience so far, CSO has not given much insight on the hard GPA floor firms with ignoring with a below median GPA (aside from V10ish firm obviously). Also never know with the seemingly low GPA firms, since those could reflect diversity, IP, or other somewhat specialized candidates.