Quick anecdote for small town folks who want NYC/large city Forum

[NYSprague]

I have seen people from small towns be concerned that firms in a large cities doubt they want to live in the big city.

I had this happen when I interviewed a student from a top school who was from tiny town in South Dakota. I pushed him hard on why he wanted New York. He did two things perfectly. I thought it might help you guys if you adapt this for your interviews.

1. He was very positive about where he was from. He explained that he didn't have things to entertain him, so he developed a wide range of interests. But he was careful to emphasize the positive in this, how it made him more independent and curious about the world. He then listed some of his hobbies which included cooking and the theater.

2. He followed that up with very specific things about New York. He didn't just say., you have great restaurants. He said things like I've developed a real interest in cooking [types of food, which I don't recall specifically]. He then mentioned specific restaurants and chefs here in New York, that he wanted to try to further his own cooking. Then he mentioned how he had found a venue that broadcast live shows from the metropolitan opera and from the national theater in London. He again mentioned specific shows he had seen and a few specific shows he wanted to try to see over the summer.

He convinced me that he would be able to navigate and enjoy living in New York.

I suggest people think about their own interests and how they can relate them to living in a target city.

You need to realize that I lived in NYC my entire life. I had strong doubts that this person from the middle of nowhere could be happy here. I feel his approach was smart and showed he was familiar with the city and had specific interests he wanted to pursue.

Of course, you have to be careful to not sound like you think an SA is a party, he didn't because he mentioned a few things. He managed to make coming from a small town into a strength and explained his interests at the same time.

[jess]

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[Tanicius]

I never understood why interviewers even ask this question given the junior associate is never going to have free time to enjoy the city anyway.

I don't get why firms want associates who are going to stick around in the first place. 50% of them get canned in the first 2-3 years, 80% by year 5, and 95% by year 7/8.

If they don't stick around for more than a year or two, then so what? You probably would have cut 'em loose around then anyway.

[NYSprague]

Because I don't want to be the guy who gave favorable reviews to someone who is going to leave to go back home in a couple of months because they can't take the city. Also I don't want to work with openly miserable people who hate living in New York. Complainers are just bad people to be around.

And there is a small part of me that actually cares if a person is happy with their life, but I understand they all need a job somewhere.

My point was that this approach might be helpful on other markets where maybe you have to convince the interviewer you aren't a flight risk. I've found it is important to not be negative about where you are from and also give more specific answers that show you've thought about it. For all I know this story was complete bullshit.

Just saying you are a sports fan and have always wanted to go to an old timers game at Yankee stadium isn't enough.

[Cogburn87]

Because I don't want to be the guy who gave favorable reviews to someone who is going to leave to go back home in a couple of months because they can't take the city. Also I don't want to work with openly miserable people who hate living in New York. Complainers are just bad people to be around.

Not sure I follow. How would giving him a favorable review affect you in any way if he bailed later?

Also, if you don't like working with openly miserable people who complain a lot, I'm pretty sure biglaw is the worst possible job for you in that respect.

[Hipster but Athletic]

Because I don't want to be the guy who gave favorable reviews to someone who is going to leave to go back home in a couple of months because they can't take the city. Also I don't want to work with openly miserable people who hate living in New York. Complainers are just bad people to be around.

Not sure I follow. How would giving him a favorable review affect you in any way if he bailed later?

Also, if you don't like working with openly miserable people who complain a lot, I'm pretty sure biglaw is the worst possible job for you in that respect.

Bc sometimes people feel bad about leading people into misery?

[A. Nony Mouse]

Not sure I follow. How would giving him a favorable review affect you in any way if he bailed later?

I mean, even if most associates don't end up sticking around for partner, firms don't want them to leave within a couple of months.

[Cogburn87]

Bc sometimes people feel bad about leading people into misery?

Well, yeah. My point was that it's odd to give a kid a bad review on his callback because you suspect he doesn't really want to live in NY knowing full well that the work itself will likely have him experiencing crushing despair on a daily basis regardless.

[rad lulz]

.

[Cogburn87]

Not sure I follow. How would giving him a favorable review affect you in any way if he bailed later?

I mean, even if most associates don't end up sticking around for partner, firms don't want them to leave within a couple of months.

Yes. But no one is going to call you up and say "What the fuck, Associate #234?! You gave him a good review and he bailed!", so I fail to see the concern of being "the guy" who gave him a favorable review.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Not sure I follow. How would giving him a favorable review affect you in any way if he bailed later?

I mean, even if most associates don't end up sticking around for partner, firms don't want them to leave within a couple of months.

Yes. But no one is going to call you up and say "What the fuck, Associate #234?! You gave him a good review and he bailed!", so I fail to see the concern of being "the guy" who gave him a favorable review.

Because maybe NYSprague would like to do a good job of recruiting for the sake of doing a good job?

[Cogburn87]

Because maybe NYSprague would like to do a good job of recruiting for the sake of doing a good job?

Well, I dunno. That's why I asked. They way he phrased it sounded like he wanted to avoid some kind of blowback, which just seems silly.

[Anonymous User]

I never understood why interviewers even ask this question given the junior associate is never going to have free time to enjoy the city anyway.

My first thought, too. I'm not sure this guy is going to get to cook much and visit all these chefs.

I'm from a small town, and I find it offensive that "big city" people always seem to think we can't "handle" the big bad city.

[NYSprague]

I never understood why interviewers even ask this question given the junior associate is never going to have free time to enjoy the city anyway.

My first thought, too. I'm not sure this guy is going to get to cook much and visit all these chefs.

I'm from a small town, and I find it offensive that "big city" people always seem to think we can't "handle" the big bad city.

Offensive or not you should be prepared for interview questions in case they come up. I'm sure he was annoyed too.

If I looked for a job in a small town firm, I'm sure they would have even greater doubts about me.

[NYSprague]

Because I don't want to be the guy who gave favorable reviews to someone who is going to leave to go back home in a couple of months because they can't take the city. Also I don't want to work with openly miserable people who hate living in New York. Complainers are just bad people to be around.

Not sure I follow. How would giving him a favorable review affect you in any way if he bailed later?

Also, if you don't like working with openly miserable people who complain a lot, I'm pretty sure biglaw is the worst possible job for you in that respect.

Losing credibility with recruiting? Not supporting people who don't accept offers or are miserable? Having some modicum of judgement? Interviewing isn't just to pass the time of day or answer questions. Fit is important, though maybe hard to explain.

People tend not to bitch about their lives to me.
But if someone is negative in an interview, when they are putting their best foot forward, what will they be like under stress and without sleep?

[beachbum]

Thats a good poast right there

I'm from the provinces and I didn't expect to have people ask me why I wanted to be in NY during OCI

NYC cares a little more about "ties" than people let on

Yup. That was one of those TLS conventional wisdoms that turned out to be dead wrong in my experience.

[Cogburn87]

But did you inform him that instead of cooking he'll likely be spending most of his meals eating seamless alone at his desk?

[Tanicius]

Thats a good poast right there

I'm from the provinces and I didn't expect to have people ask me why I wanted to be in NY during OCI

NYC cares a little more about "ties" than people let on

Yup. That was one of those TLS conventional wisdoms that turned out to be dead wrong in my experience.

Same thing holds with LA. Did several callbacks in LA/Century City and I don't think they believed me when I said I'd love LA. I don't think there was anything particularly spotty with my answers, but they have enough competing applicants who are from LA that they know in a heartbeat will stay there forever.

[First Offense]

I have seen people from small towns be concerned that firms in a large cities doubt they want to live in the big city.

I had this happen when I interviewed a student from a top school who was from tiny town in South Dakota. I pushed him hard on why he wanted New York. He did two things perfectly. I thought it might help you guys if you adapt this for your interviews.

1. He was very positive about where he was from. He explained that he didn't have things to entertain him, so he developed a wide range of interests. But he was careful to emphasize the positive in this, how it made him more independent and curious about the world. He then listed some of his hobbies which included cooking and the theater.

2. He followed that up with very specific things about New York. He didn't just say., you have great restaurants. He said things like I've developed a real interest in cooking [types of food, which I don't recall specifically]. He then mentioned specific restaurants and chefs here in New York, that he wanted to try to further his own cooking. Then he mentioned how he had found a venue that broadcast live shows from the metropolitan opera and from the national theater in London. He again mentioned specific shows he had seen and a few specific shows he wanted to try to see over the summer.

He convinced me that he would be able to navigate and enjoy living in New York.

I suggest people think about their own interests and how they can relate them to living in a target city.

You need to realize that I lived in NYC my entire life. I had strong doubts that this person from the middle of nowhere could be happy here. I feel his approach was smart and showed he was familiar with the city and had specific interests he wanted to pursue.

Of course, you have to be careful to not sound like you think an SA is a party, he didn't because he mentioned a few things. He managed to make coming from a small town into a strength and explained his interests at the same time.

Excellent, informative post followed by the typical TLS aspie-edgy-mafia.

[smaug_]

As someone from a rural background, I hate this. I don't like many of your posts about biglaw (and have disagreed with things you've said across many handles), but normally you have enough expertise for me to be like "lol, OK" but let's talk about this.

You don't need to be given an explanation about why NY. NY isn't some magically difficult place to live. People who are from rural areas likely had to move for school, have worked in another metropolitan area and chose to go to law school knowing that they would end up there.

The attitude of "oh they might want to go home" is odd, because if you grew up outside a major metropolitan area you'd know that there probably isn't a means for them to go home. If you're interviewing someone from South Dakota for a biglaw job in NYC and they take it, they're probably not going to be living full time in SD for a long, long time. They might pick up work with a non-profit, find a way into government or retire out there, but I doubt they're going to pack their bags and return to Sioux Falls.

Questions like yours reveal a lot about the person asking them. It takes a very parochial viewpoint to have the concerns underlying your OP. How do you think small-town kid is going to respond? Do you really want them to feed you (a) a bullshit answer about how much they love David Chang, or do you want them to say (b) "I wanted to be a lawyer working on complex financial matters, NYC is the best place for me to do that" or do want them to think (c) "this firm is full of tools?" Because whether they give you (a) or (b), they are almost assuredly thinking (c).

Thanks for explaining why this asinine question was asked, albeit infrequently, by some interviewers. I probably answered it poorly when I went through interviews. But, that didn't really bother me. I figure if my interviewer is dumb enough to wonder why a well-educated candidate would want to work in New York, I don't really want to be her employee/coworker.

ETA: just to make sure my insult is clear here: SUNYNP, if you are dumb enough to think that some bullshit about David Chang is anything other than a learned response to NYC parochialism you shouldn't be doing interviews and god help anyone who works with you

[guano]

You don't need to be given an explanation about why NY. NY isn't some magically difficult place to live. People who are from rural areas likely had to move for school, have worked in another metropolitan area and chose to go to law school knowing that they would end up there.

Actually, I've known a crapload of people who couldn't "handle" New York, including people from other metropolitan cities who were ready to go back home after just three months here.

No, it's not difficult to live in NY, but it is a particular way of life and a particular mentality and not everyone wants, is suited for, or can adapt to, that way of life.

[smaug_]

You don't need to be given an explanation about why NY. NY isn't some magically difficult place to live. People who are from rural areas likely had to move for school, have worked in another metropolitan area and chose to go to law school knowing that they would end up there.

Actually, I've known a crapload of people who couldn't "handle" New York, including people from other metropolitan cities who were ready to go back home after just three months here.

No, it's not difficult to live in NY, but it is a particular way of life and a particular mentality and not everyone wants, is suited for, or can adapt to, that way of life.

(dumbass NYC parochialist)

yeah, I don't think they couldn't handle NY—maybe they couldn't handle their job, maybe they couldn't handle distance from family and friends, maybe they realized they had something better back home

Regardless, there are better ways to get at the real concerns that don't resort to some strange NYC mysticism. New York is not a difficult city to handle. More importantly, if you can't handle it, LJL at thinking some restaurants are going to make everything OK. Can you imagine that internal dialogue? "Hm, I'm really unhappy here, but I can go to Má Pêche and Red Rooster, so I guess I'll stay here after all." Yet, as sunynp demonstrates, this is exactly the kind of "best city in the world!" answer some folks want. That should show you that the concern is misplaced.

It takes a certain kind of self-congratulatory, fart huffing attitude to think that the small town kid just can't cope with the big city. Not surprised you fit the bill, dingy.

[NYSprague]

The idea was that the person had put thought and some planning into their life in New York. Not that just going out to dinner once in a while would cheer him up from his inevitable small town depression caused by moving to the big city. (I am sure he had some version of this answer for every city he interviewed.)

You guys realize that until I asked a question, I had no idea what his answer would be? Maybe it should be apparent to everyone that a person graduating from a high school class of fewer people than live on a floor of my building would love New York, but it wasn't to me. There are many people who don't want to live in New York or who deeply hate the idea of living in New York. Just look at the number of people here who post about how they will never live in New York.

I thought maybe this example might help the kid from small city A explain why they might want large city B (besides just the work or desperately needing a job.)

If it never comes up in an interview, you won't have to worry about it. If it does have some answer that shows you've put some thought into it instead of sitting there with a blank look on your face. Don't use this exact example ffs.

[smaug_]

My point was that it is a dumb question (though it gets asked) and you're dumb for thinking that's a good answer. The only honest answer to why NY is "you are hiring for a job there. I want that job." You can talk about family, your love of the arts or great food, but if someone didn't want to be in that city and knew it, they wouldn't want the job.

Your concerns are entirely parochial and deserve to be made fun of. I hope, as a result of this conversation, you'll think of better questions when they (mistakenly) put you in front of a candidate again.

[NYSprague]

My point was that it is a dumb question (though it gets asked) and you're dumb for thinking that's a good answer. The only honest answer to why NY is "you are hiring for a job there. I want that job." You can talk about family, your love of the arts or great food, but if someone didn't want to be in that city and knew it, they wouldn't want the job.

Your concerns are entirely parochial and deserve to be made fun of. I hope, as a result of this conversation, you'll think of better questions when they (mistakenly) put you in front of a candidate again.

Lol. Thanks for the advice. I'm sure you are the star interviewer at your firm. Too bad you can't interview everyone who needs a job. Some people might need to consider an answer to this question in advance.