Is there a legal ethics guide to billing hours? Forum

[09042014]

Like what counts what doesn't?

[emkay625]

I had the same question. Lots of things like - if I get asked to write a motion, and spend 1-2 hours looking at samples because I've never written one before, is that billable? My inclination is no, so I haven't been billing things like that, but an official guide would be helpful.

[ymmv]

Wait you guys don't just guesstimate this stuff to the nearest hour?

[ScottRiqui]

I had the same question. Lots of things like - if I get asked to write a motion, and spend 1-2 hours looking at samples because I've never written one before, is that billable? My inclination is no, so I haven't been billing things like that, but an official guide would be helpful.

Curious about this too - I thought the guidance was "bill everything and let your superiors mark it down if it needs to be marked down"? Unless you're worried that billing your research into samples might look like you're trying to "get away with something", I guess.

[rad lulz]

I had the same question. Lots of things like - if I get asked to write a motion, and spend 1-2 hours looking at samples because I've never written one before, is that billable? My inclination is no, so I haven't been billing things like that, but an official guide would be helpful.

Bill that

[smallfirmassociate]

This may even vary by state. My practice is to not bill for anything that constitutes "background knowledge" -- or what the substantial majority of attorneys in my areas (as in, geographical area and practice area) should already know. This is different from having to research things that particularly experienced attorneys may already know, as that difference is reflected in different billing rates. It's an inexact science, but I think that's the ethical way to do it where I practice.

[silenttimer]

I had the same question. Lots of things like - if I get asked to write a motion, and spend 1-2 hours looking at samples because I've never written one before, is that billable? My inclination is no, so I haven't been billing things like that, but an official guide would be helpful.

Bill that

I agree. You should bill this time. Look at it this way, you likely would have to spend a lot more than 1-2 hours if you reinveted the wheel. Although I would note that if you're spending 1-2 hours look for an example, you are being highly inefficient. You need to go find a mid-level associate who porbably could pull an exemple within 15 minutes, time which should also be billed.

[09042014]

Wait you guys don't just guesstimate this stuff to the nearest hour?

I want to know if that is fraud.

[09042014]

This may even vary by state. My practice is to not bill for anything that constitutes "background knowledge" -- or what the substantial majority of attorneys in my areas (as in, geographical area and practice area) should already know. This is different from having to research things that particularly experienced attorneys may already know, as that difference is reflected in different billing rates. It's an inexact science, but I think that's the ethical way to do it where I practice.

Wow that is crazy.

I'm talking more about billing for watching World Cup and barely researching concurrently.

[emkay625]

I had the same question. Lots of things like - if I get asked to write a motion, and spend 1-2 hours looking at samples because I've never written one before, is that billable? My inclination is no, so I haven't been billing things like that, but an official guide would be helpful.

Bill that

I agree. You should bill this time. Look at it this way, you likely would have to spend a lot more than 1-2 hours if you reinveted the wheel. Although I would note that if you're spending 1-2 hours look for an example, you are being highly inefficient. You need to go find a mid-level associate who porbably could pull an exemple within 15 minutes, time which should also be billed.

I said reviewing examples, not finding one. I'm not an idiot.

[rad lulz]

.

[crit_racer]

When I was SAing, lots of associates talked about watching netflix and shit while they would be doing doc review/due diligence, so obviously they didn't think it was a huge faux pas

[El Pollito]

just remember your ABCs (ALWAYS BE CHURNING)

[smallfirmassociate]

This may even vary by state. My practice is to not bill for anything that constitutes "background knowledge" -- or what the substantial majority of attorneys in my areas (as in, geographical area and practice area) should already know. This is different from having to research things that particularly experienced attorneys may already know, as that difference is reflected in different billing rates. It's an inexact science, but I think that's the ethical way to do it where I practice.

Wow that is crazy.

I'm talking more about billing for watching World Cup and barely researching concurrently.

Ha, well, if nobody cares, then what the hell!

Of course, aside from when I do appellate work, I don't have "billable" hours. My hours go straight to my secretary, who bills all of them. Without there being a cutting or limiting process, I feel compelled to render services for any billed time.

[Anonymous User]

I had the same question. Lots of things like - if I get asked to write a motion, and spend 1-2 hours looking at samples because I've never written one before, is that billable? My inclination is no, so I haven't been billing things like that, but an official guide would be helpful.

I think you should. Reasons? 1. You bill per hour less $$ for a reason. 2. it would take a month for someone who has no legal education to write it correctly even with sample (riiiiight?) so even if it takes you more than it should compared to an average competent lawyer there is still value in what you're doing

[kalvano]

My boss' way to judge is did you do something that advances the deal or benefits the client? If so, bill it. I was questioning all of my .1's during a day that were follow-up emails to various people.

And don't cut your own hours. I was tempted to do it because I thought I spent too long on things. I didn't, my boss billed it, and the client paid it. Your boss knows a lot better than you do (generally) what's correct for a matter.

[Anonymous User]

Is it safe to assume that summer associates shouldn't be too concerned with things like whether they should "bill" their time for looking at samples because everything we do gets written off anyway?

[84651846190]

bill baby bill

[Anonymous User]

For me it's easy to know what to bill. What's hard is when you end up spending 8 hours on something that would normally take you 2.5 because you left the office at 4am that day. Seems unfair that clients pay for fatigue.

[Anonymous User]

I had the same question. Lots of things like - if I get asked to write a motion, and spend 1-2 hours looking at samples because I've never written one before, is that billable? My inclination is no, so I haven't been billing things like that, but an official guide would be helpful.

You will never make hours if you self edit like this. This is a 10/10 on the legit to bill spectrum. Your goal should be to save the client time by looking up example language plus it avoids the risk by taking something written by a senior person. I often spend half the day in transactional law looking up perfect language. Sometimes the research doesn't pay off and it would have been quicker to draft. Most times it pays off. You don't just bill the client if you win, you bill them win or lose. If the client makes millions on the matter you are on, you don't get the upside either, you just bill for your services.

Tldr: as long as you are in good faith not trying to slow up the process it's legit, the fact that you were not as efficient as possible is the billing partner's issue.

[Big Shrimpin]

bill baby bill

[Nebby]

Tldr: as long as you are in good faith not trying to slow up the process it's legit, the fact that you were not as efficient as possible is the billing partner's issue.

Seems like the CR.

[Anonymous User]

so what if you're working and gchatting at the same time? do you bill the whole time? guesstimate how much time gchatting took?

[Anonymous User]

What are typical protocols for billing travel time where you either can't work or don't have work that can be done? (i.e. sitting in a cab to the airport, going through security, etc..)

[rad lulz]

What are typical protocols for billing travel time where you either can't work or don't have work that can be done? (i.e. sitting in a cab to the airport, going through security, etc..)

Ask your firm