T14 grad, 3rd yr associate. hate being a lawyer. Forum

[Anonymous User]

I graduated top in the top 1/3 of my class from a lower T14 a few years ago. I served in a leadership role on a secondary journal, and actually really loved law school.

I got rejected from every single firm at OCI, and ended up with one job offer at a small firm doing litigation in a tertiary market with pay in the middle 5 figures. I'm on IBR, and with my monthly payment, don't even pay off 1/2 the interest that accumulates every month. Basically, I am completely unengaged at work, despise the actual tasks involved in the daily practice of law, and am literally getting poorer every day. The partners seem reasonably pleased (but not necessarily ecstatic) with my work, but I don't think I'll ever be a great attorney because I am unengaged in it and can't force myself to give it my full intellectual effort. I feel like I am simply wasting my life. I spent the last year actively applying to other legal jobs, and got interviews at some V50 firms, but ultimately wasn't chosen for any of them. Then I applied to a bunch of nonprofits and government law jobs and got rejected from those too. I am seriously questioning whether I should continue practicing law. I have basically given up on the idea that my student loans will ever be paid off, so I might as well get poor doing something more meaningful.

Any ideas?

[84651846190]

Do you have a useful undergraduate degree?

[Anonymous User]

Do you have a useful undergraduate degree?

no.

[zozin]

Have you thought about clerking and trying to get into biglaw with that on your resume? The work would likely still suck, but at least you're making money.

[Anonymous User]

Have you thought about clerking and trying to get into biglaw with that on your resume? The work would likely still suck, but at least you're making money.

Yes, applied to clerkships as well. Struck out.

[wildhaggis]

Hmm. How many TLS bros have done this? Just straight up left law. Is this done?

[09042014]

Hmm. How many TLS bros have done this? Just straight up left law. Is this done?

Its very common

[84651846190]

Hmm. How many TLS bros have done this? Just straight up left law. Is this done?

It's very common, but the people who do it sure as hell don't post on TLS.

[wildhaggis]

Makes sense. Probably a useless question, but what kinds of paths do you see these people take? Or are we talking just absolutely across the board.

[Yeshia90]

Hmm. How many TLS bros have done this? Just straight up left law. Is this done?

It's very common, but the people who do it sure as hell don't post on TLS.

Unless they go into retail. I hear there's big money managing a Hot Topic.

[84651846190]

Makes sense. Probably a useless question, but what kinds of paths do you see these people take? Or are we talking just absolutely across the board.

Off the top of my head:

guidance counselor
quasi-legal compliance job
consulting
quasi-legal (but mostly business development) job at startup
teaching non-legal stuff in undergrad
unemployment/home making
taco truck owner
a variety of other non-legal in house jobs in corporations

[kalvano]

Hmm. How many TLS bros have done this? Just straight up left law. Is this done?

It's very common, but the people who do it sure as hell don't post on TLS.

Unless they go into retail. I hear there's big money managing a Hot Topic.

Managers of big box stores make around $150K plus bonus.

[NorCalLaw]

This probably sounds a bit crazy, but my dream plan in this sort of scenario is to move to Korea, China, or Australia (or wherever, really, they won't come after you for your debt) and just leave the debt behind me permanently. Being a loan-servicing indentured servant at a job I hate for 20 of the best years of my life would not be an acceptable outcome.

[brotherdarkness]

.

[ymmv]

There's always the possibility of teaching poli sci - or whatever your major was - at a TTTT undergrad. I actually know some former failed lawyers who seem quite happy with this second career.

If you have no conscience whatsoever you could always go teach at a Pre-Law program.

[A. Nony Mouse]

There's always the possibility of teaching poli sci - or whatever your major was - at a TTTT undergrad. I actually know some former failed lawyers who seem quite happy with this second career.

It's actually very very hard to get these jobs and they're usually a terrible option.

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

There's always the possibility of teaching poli sci - or whatever your major was - at a TTTT undergrad. I actually know some former failed lawyers who seem quite happy with this second career.

I don't think any sane person would be happy doing this. You make more money and have better job security being a public high school teacher.

[NorCalLaw]

This probably sounds a bit crazy, but my dream plan in this sort of scenario is to move to Korea, China, or Australia (or wherever, really, they won't come after you for your debt) and just leave the debt behind me permanently. Being a loan-servicing indentured servant at a job I hate for 20 of the best years of my life would not be an acceptable outcome.

Can the gov go after family (parents) for repayment?

Lenders can only go after you family if they co-signed, which is not usually (never?) the case with government loans. Your credit will be ruined in the United States, but my understanding is that your credit won't follow you. If you ever return, of course, you'll have awful credit, but there shouldn't be any criminal consequences.

[ymmv]

There's always the possibility of teaching poli sci - or whatever your major was - at a TTTT undergrad. I actually know some former failed lawyers who seem quite happy with this second career.

It's actually very very hard to get these jobs and they're usually a terrible option.

I said possibility, not viability. What the fuck does he have to lose by sending out some feelers/applications to whatever interests him? It's not like anyone's prospects from shitlaw are that much better.

Honestly even the "move to China" option could be worth thinking about if he doesn't have any cosigners and/or dependents. His situation sounds like it's going to get worse in its present trajectory. Anyway, this is not real advice. I just feel sorry for OP and hope he figures something out.

[A. Nony Mouse]

There's always the possibility of teaching poli sci - or whatever your major was - at a TTTT undergrad. I actually know some former failed lawyers who seem quite happy with this second career.

It's actually very very hard to get these jobs and they're usually a terrible option.

I said possibility, not viability. What the fuck does he have to lose by sending out some feelers/applications to whatever interests him? It's not like anyone's prospects from shitlaw are that much better.

Honestly even the "move to China" option could be worth thinking about if he doesn't have any cosigners and/or dependents. His situation sounds like it's going to get worse in its present trajectory. Anyway, this is not real advice. I just feel sorry for OP and hope he figures something out.

I just feel compelled to try to save people from that particular gruesome fate.

[BigRob]

Dear t14 grad 3rd yr associate,

Your "unfortunate" circumstances aren't causing your unhappiness. There are people in far worse situations who are happier than you, and people in far better who are depressed. If you had a big law job, you'd complain about the hours (and still probably complain about the pay). You'd whine and bitch and moan no matter where you worked. It's who you are; it's your personality that is unfortunate. Deal with a life of unhappiness, because even if your circumstances get objectively better, your happiness level won't be permanently changed.

For further reading, see http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happiness (citing peer-reviewed studies showing that a very small percent of a given person's happiness level is affected by life circumstances and situation); http://www.google.com/search?q=stability+of+happiness (linking to same).

[ymmv]

Dear t14 grad 3rd yr associate,

Your "unfortunate" circumstances aren't causing your unhappiness. There are people in far worse situations who are happier than you, and people in far better who are depressed. If you had a big law job, you'd complain about the hours (and still probably complain about the pay). You'd whine and bitch and moan no matter where you worked. It's who you are; it's your personality that is unfortunate. Deal with a life of unhappiness, because even if your circumstances get objectively better, your happiness level won't be permanently changed.

For further reading, see http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happiness (citing peer-reviewed studies showing that a very small percent of a given person's happiness level is affected by life circumstances and situation); http://www.google.com/search?q=stability+of+happiness (linking to same).

Yeah, you're not funny, fuckwad.

[NYSprague]

It isn't so easy to just move to another country. Even teaching English in Korea has been radically changed in the past year or two. Just like the U.S., other countries have immigration requirements and visa limitations.

Serious question: you sound depressed. Perhaps some therapy might help you figure things out? I agree your situation is difficult and it makes sense that your mental health might suffer.

There are options though. Thanks to PAYE you can be paying very little on your loans, so.don't feel trapped in this job.

[NYSprague]

Dear t14 grad 3rd yr associate,

Your "unfortunate" circumstances aren't causing your unhappiness. There are people in far worse situations who are happier than you, and people in far better who are depressed. If you had a big law job, you'd complain about the hours (and still probably complain about the pay). You'd whine and bitch and moan no matter where you worked. It's who you are; it's your personality that is unfortunate. Deal with a life of unhappiness, because even if your circumstances get objectively better, your happiness level won't be permanently changed.

For further reading, see http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happiness (citing peer-reviewed studies showing that a very small percent of a given person's happiness level is affected by life circumstances and situation); http://www.google.com/search?q=stability+of+happiness (linking to same).

Yeah, nothing like life advice from someone who never had a job prior to a year ago. I still recall your post about how much you would make as an SA, how it was the first dime you had ever earned, and how you had no idea how to manage it.

You have no idea how OP would feel if he had a job that would allow him to service his debt.

[Pokemon]

I also had the feeling that OP might be suffering from depression. Not that there is anything with disliking law and wanting to move on, but that is just the vibe I got.

Also, whoever is advising moving abroad is either stupid or naive. Moving abroad is not as easy as people assume. You are leaving behind your family, network, and for what? Chances are that you will not be making a ton of money abroad or living more comfortably than you are living in the US.
Additionally, as terrible as student debt is, it is a relatively protected debt. You can do IBR and it should not affect your credit to a terrible extent. At the end of the day, personally I would rather make 60k in the US and be on IBR, rather than make less in a new country where I know no one.

This is advice from someone who in his life has moved more than 99% of the people in this forum. It is fun if it is for a few years like in peace corps or teaching abroad, but actual immigration can be very painful.