Clerkship : Externship with . . . Forum

[09042014]

LOL at firms who put judicial internships under clerkships. How MAF are real clerks at this?

[Anonymous User]

LOL at firms who put judicial internships under clerkships. How MAF are real clerks at this?

Not very but it's TTT.

I found out that our temp clerk (this is someone who is hired to do spillover clerk work for all judges in our district and is emphatically not one judge's term clerk) lists on her bio page that she clerked for my judge during a "term" of my year. This explains why other firms in the same market (where we both applied at the same time) were sometimes confused when I said I was Judge X's only law clerk. End of the day tho, I'm not mad, because I got a job I liked without having to misrepresent my resume.

[IAFG]

My favorite TLS butthurt of all time was during the crash when judges were taking unpaid "clerks" and people weren't disclosing payment on their résumé.

[IAFG]

LOL at firms who put judicial internships under clerkships. How MAF are real clerks at this?

Not very but it's TTT.

I found out that our temp clerk (this is someone who is hired to do spillover clerk work for all judges in our district and is emphatically not one judge's term clerk) lists on her bio page that she clerked for my judge during a "term" of my year. This explains why other firms in the same market (where we both applied at the same time) were sometimes confused when I said I was Judge X's only law clerk. End of the day tho, I'm not mad, because I got a job I liked without having to misrepresent my resume.

How was she misrepresenting? She clerked for your judge concurrently. If anything you were misrepresenting it by saying you were the only clerk.

[adonai]

LOL at firms who put judicial internships under clerkships. How MAF are real clerks at this?

Not very but it's TTT.

I found out that our temp clerk (this is someone who is hired to do spillover clerk work for all judges in our district and is emphatically not one judge's term clerk) lists on her bio page that she clerked for my judge during a "term" of my year. This explains why other firms in the same market (where we both applied at the same time) were sometimes confused when I said I was Judge X's only law clerk. End of the day tho, I'm not mad, because I got a job I liked without having to misrepresent my resume.

How was she misrepresenting? She clerked for your judge concurrently. If anything you were misrepresenting it by saying you were the only clerk.

We have these clerks in our fed courts too. They're closer to staff/research attorneys. They're definitely not any one single judge's clerk.

What kind of irks me is law students who call themselves judicial law clerks instead of judicial externs, which is what they really are.

[IAFG]

Yeah if they aren't assigned to a judge I guess it doesn't make sense to pick one judge out of a hat but if they were assigned to one I see no problem

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, clerking for all the judges is not the same as clerking for a judge. (Not knocking the experience, it's just not the same thing.) I could see listing all the judges as your employers but it would be weird to pick one.

The year I clerked, the judge got an extra clerk who was coming in the next year for free - they didn't have a job lined up and got a year-long school fellowship and so basically found a judge willing to take them on without having to pay them. One of the school requirements was that they make clear on their resume that they weren't being paid by the judge. (Doesn't make a difference in the experience this person was getting, I just thought it was interesting that the school had that requirement.)

And I agree that it drives me nuts when law student judicial externs call themselves judicial law clerks. I realize that sounds snotty, but it also drives me nuts when people call paid jobs with private firms (whether SA or law clerk) "internships." So less snotty than anal retentive, I guess.

[09042014]

By "Term" of the year, I'd say that's legit.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, clerking for all the judges is not the same as clerking for a judge. (Not knocking the experience, it's just not the same thing.) I could see listing all the judges as your employers but it would be weird to pick one.

The year I clerked, the judge got an extra clerk who was coming in the next year for free - they didn't have a job lined up and got a year-long school fellowship and so basically found a judge willing to take them on without having to pay them. One of the school requirements was that they make clear on their resume that they weren't being paid by the judge. (Doesn't make a difference in the experience this person was getting, I just thought it was interesting that the school had that requirement.)

And I agree that it drives me nuts when law student judicial externs call themselves judicial law clerks. I realize that sounds snotty, but it also drives me nuts when people call paid jobs with private firms (whether SA or law clerk) "internships." So less snotty than anal retentive, I guess.

Same anon as above. She was assigned to all judges essentially as a research attorney and picked one arbitrarily to represent on her resume that she was the term clerk for. It was a misrepresentation. The hiring process for one thing is completely different.

[rayiner]

It doesn't bother me, because someone can easily figure out from your resume/transcript whether you were a term clerk or working for free.

[IAFG]

It doesn't bother me, because someone can easily figure out from your resume/transcript whether you were a term clerk or working for free.

Oh THAT'S why it doesn't bother you? Rolling my eyes so hard at you right now.

[20160810]

It doesn't bother me, because someone can easily figure out from your resume/transcript whether you were a term clerk or working for free.

Oh THAT'S why it doesn't bother you? Rolling my eyes so hard at you right now.

Confirm/deny that Rayiner is so prestigious that he includes everything "without limitation"

[rayiner]

It doesn't bother me, because someone can easily figure out from your resume/transcript whether you were a term clerk or working for free.

Oh THAT'S why it doesn't bother you? Rolling my eyes so hard at you right now.

That came out douchier than intended. What I mean is that the only context in which I'd care that someone listed themselves as a law clerk for my judge is if they were competing with me for a job, but in that context an employer will be looking at transcripts, etc, anyway. In other words, this issue can't affect you as a term clerk in any material way, so there's no reason to care.

[minnbills]

What kind of irks me is law students who call themselves judicial law clerks instead of judicial externs, which is what they really are.

I do that. I used to put judicial extern but one of my profs advised me to put clerk down on my resume. It has definitely helped me get more interviews.

I don't think it's a misrepresentation. "Law clerk" encompasses pretty much any legal job you will have during law school and is the traditional title for a law student working to get experience or whatever Further distinctions just make people less competitive.

[Anonymous User]

It doesn't bother me, because someone can easily figure out from your resume/transcript whether you were a term clerk or working for free.

Oh THAT'S why it doesn't bother you? Rolling my eyes so hard at you right now.

That came out douchier than intended. What I mean is that the only context in which I'd care that someone listed themselves as a law clerk for my judge is if they were competing with me for a job, but in that context an employer will be looking at transcripts, etc, anyway. In other words, this issue can't affect you as a term clerk in any material way, so there's no reason to care.

For a magistrate or bk judge, the difference between a floater clerk and a judge's term clerk may be slight resume-wise, which either makes the harm from the floater clerk's misrepresentation greater or de minimis, I'm not sure which...

[A. Nony Mouse]

What kind of irks me is law students who call themselves judicial law clerks instead of judicial externs, which is what they really are.

I do that. I used to put judicial extern but one of my profs advised me to put clerk down on my resume. It has definitely helped me get more interviews.

I don't think it's a misrepresentation. "Law clerk" encompasses pretty much any legal job you will have during law school and is the traditional title for a law student working to get experience or whatever Further distinctions just make people less competitive.

What? If you're getting more interviews because employers think you were a judge's law clerk and not an extern, I don't see how that's not misrepresenting things - if the title makes a difference, that's because it means something different to employers.

[minnbills]

What kind of irks me is law students who call themselves judicial law clerks instead of judicial externs, which is what they really are.

I do that. I used to put judicial extern but one of my profs advised me to put clerk down on my resume. It has definitely helped me get more interviews.

I don't think it's a misrepresentation. "Law clerk" encompasses pretty much any legal job you will have during law school and is the traditional title for a law student working to get experience or whatever Further distinctions just make people less competitive.

What? If you're getting more interviews because employers think you were a judge's law clerk and not an extern, I don't see how that's not misrepresenting things - if the title makes a difference, that's because it means something different to employers.

That's a good point, but the issue is the whole intern/extern title thing is new. I would never hold myself out as one of "judge x's clerks." The point I want to make is 20 years ago if you worked as a "law clerk" for a judge during law school, no one would confuse that with a bona fine "clerkship."

I still worked as a "law clerk" in the same way other students working for law firms did their 1L summers, the only difference is some people want to deprecate by calling what I did an "externship." I think "externship" to employers means you just sat around and watched things.

[IAFG]

I absolutely don't think externs should call themselves clerks, but if an employer can't puzzle together what happened they need to read resumes more carefully. The dates should make it obvious.

[Anonymous User]

I found out that our temp clerk (this is someone who is hired to do spillover clerk work for all judges in our district and is emphatically not one judge's term clerk) lists on her bio page that she clerked for my judge during a "term" of my year. This explains why other firms in the same market (where we both applied at the same time) were sometimes confused when I said I was Judge X's only law clerk. End of the day tho, I'm not mad, because I got a job I liked without having to misrepresent my resume.

How should this type of clerk list it in their resume? One who works for several different federal district court judges but still served a full term.

[Holly Golightly]

I found out that our temp clerk (this is someone who is hired to do spillover clerk work for all judges in our district and is emphatically not one judge's term clerk) lists on her bio page that she clerked for my judge during a "term" of my year. This explains why other firms in the same market (where we both applied at the same time) were sometimes confused when I said I was Judge X's only law clerk. End of the day tho, I'm not mad, because I got a job I liked without having to misrepresent my resume.

How should this type of clerk list it in their resume? One who works for several different federal district court judges but still served a full term.

I didn't know that floater clerk was a thing. I thought those people were called staff attorneys?

[Anonymous User]

I found out that our temp clerk (this is someone who is hired to do spillover clerk work for all judges in our district and is emphatically not one judge's term clerk) lists on her bio page that she clerked for my judge during a "term" of my year. This explains why other firms in the same market (where we both applied at the same time) were sometimes confused when I said I was Judge X's only law clerk. End of the day tho, I'm not mad, because I got a job I liked without having to misrepresent my resume.

How should this type of clerk list it in their resume? One who works for several different federal district court judges but still served a full term.

I've seen it as eg "Law Clerk for the United States District Court for the Western District of Dakota." Ultimately though asking a judge is the best bet.