JD/MBA for a 2nd OCI? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm a rising 3L at a T20, and I struck out at 2L OCI. I'm either doing research for a professor or working in-house this summer, pending an interview on Monday. I am considering pursuing a JD/MBA so I can get another crack at a big firm. Obviously this would be a major risk because I would lose a year of income and have to put myself deeper in debt. I'm just wondering if there's anyone out there with input on this who either did the same thing (or knows someone who did), or has some other relevant experience.


A few important notes:
-I'm not currently that deep in debt, relatively speaking. Without the MBA I'm on pace for about $100-$110k upon graduation.
-I would be eligible for a scholarship depending on my GMAT score (I haven't taken it yet, but I do very well on standardized tests).
-My GPA took a substantial bump after 2L Fall: I went from top 20% to just outside the top 5%.
-I've confirmed with my school's CSO that they would treat me as a "2L" for the purposes of the upcoming fall OCI.
-I'm also applying for federal clerkships starting in 2015. I guess you could call clerking my "Plan A" at the moment.

[ChardPennington]

This might be one of those rare cases where it makes sense given your substantial grade boost but obviously clerking should be the top choice.

[Anonymous User]

OP, I know several people who've successfully done what you're suggesting coming from similarly ranked schools with similar grades. I'm not sure exactly what additional information you're looking for other than it's doable. If you provide more details, I could try and be more specific. One thing that's important to remember is that you're not committed to finishing the MBA and many law schools count business school classes toward your law school credit requirement. Put simply, sign up for the dual-degree and see how things shake down with OCI. If you get a gig, great. If not, you've taken one or two business classes that you can count toward your degree anyway.

[Anonymous User]

Interesting piece of advice. I hadn't thought about dropping after OCI (if I don't get something), which would be a great way to limit my exposure. I'm not entirely sure what the school's policy is on that though. Are you suggesting that I drop after the Fall semester and just transfer as many credits as possible over or drop around early September and switch back into law school courses? I know my school does allow for at least some courses to transfer, and I'm already planning on taking one course at the B-school regardless.

[patzan221]

Depending on your career objectives, I think this seems like a pretty reasonable plan. I'm doing a JD/MBA and have really enjoyed it. I would be cautious about starting the JD/MBA with the intention of getting another crack at OCI and then immediately dropping out of B-school once you get an offer. In some firms' eyes, part your potential value may be based in the dual-degree. It might get awkward if they thought they were hiring a JD/MBA and it turns out that you dropped the program. Either way, congrats on the great grade increase and good luck!

[Anonymous User]

Anon from earlier.

The schools that the people I know who have done this go to have separate JD and MBA admissions. Although they do offer a dual-degree option, you have to get into each school independently. It's not a truly combined program. You're essentially enrolled in two programs with a bunch of courses being cross credited. As with a JD, you can drop out of business school whenever you want. Thus, if you strike out before add/drop at your law school is over, drop the b-school classes, drop-out of business school (you might have to eat a seat deposit on this or something similar, your call if the dollar value makes sense), and switch back to law school classes. In the event you're still doing call-backs etc. after add/drop, you'll be stuck in the b-school classes. However, those classes can typically be transferred toward you JD. If you wind up striking out, just don't register for anymore b-school classes (drop-out) in the spring.

To be clear, if you get an SA offer, you would have to finish the MBA. That's the only way the timing works.

[Anonymous User]

I did this in 2010 with a different degree after striking out at a T20. I didn't do an M.B.A. because I didn't want to waste an opportunity of getting one down the line, for whatever reason, a better school. I had a lot of debt but did it anyway because I thought a second try with knowing how to bid and how legal hiring works was worth a shot. I had 4 callbacks with no offers. No grade increase. Definitely not an easy decision. Lucked out and ended up getting a summer position in a tertiary market that starts at around 100k. Got an offer, started and lateraled to a boutique in a primary market. It's a risky move but I thinks it's definitely worth it if you had a grade increase.

[Anonymous User]

Depending on your career objectives, I think this seems like a pretty reasonable plan. I'm doing a JD/MBA and have really enjoyed it. I would be cautious about starting the JD/MBA with the intention of getting another crack at OCI and then immediately dropping out of B-school once you get an offer. In some firms' eyes, part your potential value may be based in the dual-degree. It might get awkward if they thought they were hiring a JD/MBA and it turns out that you dropped the program. Either way, congrats on the great grade increase and good luck!

No, the idea was that if it looks like I'm going to strike out again, I drop out. Obviously I'll have to stick it out if I do get an offer.


Thanks for the advice everyone.

[Anonymous User]

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[Anonymous User]

I did this with a M.S. at a T30 and it worked. I chose the M.S. program because it was related to my targeted practice area and was a logical addition given my undergraduate field. (Think a non-IP technology practice.) I also had a huge scholarship for law school, which minimized the financial risk.

I did a little better at OCI the second time (small grade bump), but the main key was that I made some connections with area-specific professors who went to bat for me with firms. I ended up with several SA offers, and I remain convinced that the firm I am at now (DC big law) hired me largely because of my M.S. and a strong recommendation from a professor.

Some thoughts: make sure you have a good story of why you are doing both. Everywhere you interview will ask about it. Also, beware of the costs, even with a large scholarship, I went from about $60k in debt to about $150k. This is a huge increase and I am not sure that I would have done it had I estimated the costs better. Finally, make sure to do everything, clinics, TA/RA positions, work part-time, etc. You need to make the extra year count. I did not have a 3LOL (or 4 LOL) for that matter. Don't get me wrong, it has worked out for me, but I doubt it would work most of the time. I got really lucky at every step of the way.

TLDR: It can work, but still takes a lot of luck.

[Anonymous User]

I did this with a M.S. at a T30 and it worked. I chose the M.S. program because it was related to my targeted practice area and was a logical addition given my undergraduate field. (Think a non-IP technology practice.) I also had a huge scholarship for law school, which minimized the financial risk.

I did a little better at OCI the second time (small grade bump), but the main key was that I made some connections with area-specific professors who went to bat for me with firms. I ended up with several SA offers, and I remain convinced that the firm I am at now (DC big law) hired me largely because of my M.S. and a strong recommendation from a professor.

Some thoughts: make sure you have a good story of why you are doing both. Everywhere you interview will ask about it. Also, beware of the costs, even with a large scholarship, I went from about $60k in debt to about $150k. This is a huge increase and I am not sure that I would have done it had I estimated the costs better. Finally, make sure to do everything, clinics, TA/RA positions, work part-time, etc. You need to make the extra year count. I did not have a 3LOL (or 4 LOL) for that matter. Don't get me wrong, it has worked out for me, but I doubt it would work most of the time. I got really lucky at every step of the way.

TLDR: It can work, but still takes a lot of luck.

did you spend more than a year at school for the joint degree? I thought some joint degrees only require one more semester and the additional costs would be much lower than $90K? (just want to make sure that I didn't underestimate the cost)

[Anonymous User]

OP here: already did it and got a couple of offers at Vault firms in DC and Charlotte. Also, I got a bigger scholarship from the B school than the law school so between that and the SA salary, I'm actually probably going to graduate with slightly less debt than I would have without the MBA. Seems like it was a good idea, although obviously not the case for everyone who strikes out.

[Anonymous User]

not OP but reviving this thread..

In regards to talks about "dropping out" after OCI, is it possible to do OCI and drop out if you don't get anything?
So for example, sign up for JD/MBA, do 2nd OCI before classes start. If you land a bunch of callbacks/offers, then stay with the program. If you see signs of striking out again (no callbacks), then drop the degree and just do 3L year as a JD.

Also, can you do this with business school side recruiting as well?