Need career advice - boutique to biglaw in first year? Forum

[Anonymous User]

2013 graduate, currently an associate at a boutique law firm specializing in a niche practice area. Making 45k less than market but still a good salary (altho after rent and loans I'm not living large). Hours are generally 10-830 everyday, and only worked 3 weekends in since I started. Recently, got an offer at a V10 firm.

My concern with my current position is that the area of law is so specialized if I stay here for too long I won't be able to move elsewhere, skills aren't necessarily transferable. And only a handful of firms practice this type of law and those that do are not in my current city. However, small possibility of growing with current firm bc of it's size all partners started here.

V10 firm obviously more money and a broader practice area that will give me many more exit options/better for career. No chance at partner. My concern is I don't want to leave my current firm to work till 1am every night and weekends. Are the hours much worse than what I do now?

Any opinions/thoughts !!?

[JusticeJackson]

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[IAFG]

Why do you want the "broader" practice area?

[TooOld4This]

You will see less than 65% of that increase after taxes take their piece. You will probably work around 750 more hours per year (an extra 1-2 hours a day + 5-10 over the weekends on average, but the hours won't come in a steady stream like that). This means when you are at your most miserable, you will be earning about $35 dollars an hour. At 2am for the third night in a row, you will probably gladly pay $35 for an hour of sleep. Plus, it is likely your expenses will go up. Less free time, more outsourcing.

I don't know what your niche is, but you can get stuck in a niche practice at a V10 too, bun out faster and have no better exit options.

Do you not like your practice area? Or are you just assuming that your exit options in a few years are better if you are at the V10.

[oblitigate]

To preface, I work in a boutique & was conflicted by similar circumstances.

My firm, too, is highly niche, and even our representation (client) focus is fairly niche, as well. Moreover, we almost exclusively deal in plaintiff-contingency fee arrangements. Starting pay @ my boutique is a bit higher I think (if "market" is $160k), but still less than $160k. Part of my decision to stay w my current employer in part was from discussions with big law laterals. Basically it came down to (1) "you'll never leave a big firm at this time [~530~630p]"; (2) "you have to log billables in six minute intervals"; (3) "if you want to ultimately net real money and real work, don't go to a big firm--stay with the high-end contingency fee practices"; (4) "you will learn how to be a better lawyer here"; (5) "you actually mean something material to the firm, and will be treated that way"; (6) and "if you're talented enough, you'll eventually come work for a boutique anyways, so why fuck around."

Sorry for the afore format, I am zooming @ work right now. To me, the biggest turn-offs are (1) lack of formal training (more sink/swim) and (2) without explanation, lack of notoriety. But I'm of the opinion that the first makes you a better lawyer, and the second is literally stupid as shit and only matters to dweeby people that need prestige to boost their confidence/feelings of self-worth and accomplishment.

What's better is crushing dweeby big law associates on every motion/pleading/petty dispute that they are forced to raise and bill for, day in, day out.

A little venting and a little advice, all in one neat little package. Good luck my guy

[rad lulz]

Why do you want the "broader" practice area?

This

If anything specialization is better these days

I work at a boutique specializing in a subset of lit and I like it

[JusticeJackson]

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[TooOld4This]

I don't understand the point above. OP already has the opportunity to jump to a V10. If the OP is sick of firm life in 5 years, they aren't going to be looking at a Big firm as an exit option. And experience is the key in getting non firm jobs.

Sure, if OP is at an unstable firm not getting any practical or specialized skills, a big firm might be a good way out. But OP may very well go from a place he can keep his current pace for the next decade to one that he will burn out in 3 years. Not to mention, without knowing where he will land at the firm, the practice may be less transferable and he may get less experience.

There may be reasons to jump, but name brand is way down on the list. And stability isn't even on it.

[IAFG]

i'm guessing people at the V10 think OP's firm is the kind of place they want to end up

who leaves that to go to the place people are trying to leave

[treeey86]

You will probably get opportunities to jump on other projects bit by bit in other practice areas. Jump on those opportunities or seek them out.

[Jchance]

I think the key question is whether you can make partner at the boutique without bringing in clients. The perks at BigLaw is client-contact that you may or may not have at a boutique.

[ChardPennington]

i'm guessing people at the V10 think OP's firm is the kind of place they want to end up

who leaves that to go to the place people are trying to leave

This was the vibe I got.

If op is already doing 10-830 it sounds like he's billing around 45 hours a week, give or take. 2,250/yr seems a little light for biglaw but I bet there are a lot of biglaw associates who do fine billing around that much.

also I'll never get why people don't just get in at 7 and leave at a decent hour.

[rad lulz]

,

[Anonymous User]

Why do you want the "broader" practice area?

This

If anything specialization is better these days

I work at a boutique specializing in a subset of lit and I like it

OP here. The "broader" practice area is capital markets. I think that this firm will give me more stability and better exit options both in terms of practice area and name recognition.

My current firm is extremely niche. It is not, for example, a subset of litigation where you gain skills that are transferable to any litigation practice.

My options from here are (1) go to one of the other 4 small firms in my city ; (2) go to one of the handful of larger firms that have this practice area in a diff city; or of course stay here and make partner.

I don't hate my current area, but don't love it either. I am honestly confused of if I can see myself doing this forever. What i do know is the longer I stay the more impossible it will be to move to a diff practice area.

current firm can fire me in 3 years and I can struggle to find a comparable position.

Big firm salary will easily be over 2k more a month; and I already bill 200 hours a months and am fine with that. My fear is the 400 hour months I hear about which doesn't even make sense to me.

My other concern is going to the big firm and getting worked to death and who knows if I would've made partner here. Obviously no one can answer that.

Also current firm is not necessarily a firm big law attorneys would want to wind up at. It is well respected in the area but it's so specialized that they wouldn't hire someone from big law. You either start here, come from government, or another small firm.

Willing to PM details of current practice area.

[rayiner]

i'm guessing people at the V10 think OP's firm is the kind of place they want to end up

who leaves that to go to the place people are trying to leave

This was the vibe I got.

If op is already doing 10-830 it sounds like he's billing around 45 hours a week, give or take. 2,250/yr seems a little light for biglaw but I bet there are a lot of biglaw associates who do fine billing around that much.

also I'll never get why people don't just get in at 7 and leave at a decent hour.

Working 10-8:30 no weekends or evenings is probably more like 35-40 hours. And 2,250 per year is not light for big law. Its probably above average.

People don't get in earlier because your partner/senior doesn't get in until 10.

[Anonymous User]

OP again. I do 10-830 insteAd of coming in at 7am both because I like to stay up late and sleep in and because face time is important at current firm. The partners don't like seeing associates leave before them.

[Anonymous User]

i'm guessing people at the V10 think OP's firm is the kind of place they want to end up

who leaves that to go to the place people are trying to leave

This was the vibe I got.

If op is already doing 10-830 it sounds like he's billing around 45 hours a week, give or take. 2,250/yr seems a little light for biglaw but I bet there are a lot of biglaw associates who do fine billing around that much.

also I'll never get why people don't just get in at 7 and leave at a decent hour.

Working 10-8:30 no weekends or evenings is probably more like 35-40 hours. And 2,250 per year is not light for big law. Its probably above average.

People don't get in earlier because your partner/senior doesn't get in until 10.

OP - it's more like 40-45. Last month I billed 195 hours.

Is big law really till midnight and all weekend like the articles online

[rayiner]

200 hours a month averaged over a year is more than solid in big law. But you will have 300 hour months and your efficiency will probably go down.

[Anonymous User]

OP again! I also note the other argument is that the specialized area is a pro. Altho is super specialized it's not going anywhere and because it's not skills many associates have I may be considered less disposable even though fewer options

[ChardPennington]

I wonder if the 10 am thing is an east coast thing? Everyone I know here (CA) at any firm arrives between 7 and 730 and leaving at 5-6 isn't looked at as a big deal.

[ChardPennington]

200 hours a month averaged over a year is more than solid in big law. But you will have 300 hour months and your efficiency will probably go down.

Are 300 hour months commonplace? That seems absurd.

[rayiner]

200 hours a month averaged over a year is more than solid in big law. But you will have 300 hour months and your efficiency will probably go down.

Are 300 hour months commonplace? That seems absurd.

You'll have at least a couple each year. Its hard to say. You don't have much control over your hours. You can't turn down assignments. If you get on a busy string of cases, then you do a 2,700 hour year, and it's not because you planned to.

[BigRob]

I wonder if the 10 am thing is an east coast thing? Everyone I know here (CA) at any firm arrives between 7 and 730 and leaving at 5-6 isn't looked at as a big deal.

I have never been so grateful to not live in CA. Voluntarily waking up at 7am? What in the actual fuck.

[JusticeJackson]

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[ChardPennington]

I wonder if the 10 am thing is an east coast thing? Everyone I know here (CA) at any firm arrives between 7 and 730 and leaving at 5-6 isn't looked at as a big deal.

I have never been so grateful to not live in CA. Voluntarily waking up at 7am? What in the actual fuck.

It's also pretty rare I'm in the office past 6:30, so it evens out. I tend to hit the hay by 11. Anyway this is a pretty massive derail of OP's thread so I feel bad I was just curious.