Best firms for life/work balance? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Where do I look for information on firms (or businesses that hire straight out?) that have a stellar life/work balance? I'm married, and my partner and I would like to have a kid soon, so I'm looking for a job after law school that will let me spend lots of time with my family.

I'm at a t14, top 5% of class, and I have no debt thanks to savings and scholarships.

Thoughts?

[Anonymous User]

Look for high-paying boutiques that has low billing requirement and not known as "sweatshops". You can try NALP Directory, Billing Hour Requirement section

[IAFG]

DC firms seem chiller but "lots of time" with family doesn't sound like a firm job anywhere

plus side seeing my kid an hour a day is actually fine, you'd be surprised

[IAFG]

Look for high-paying boutiques that has low billing requirement and not known as "sweatshops". You can try NALP Directory, Billing Hour Requirement section

this really isn't very helpful, the billing req they publish is pretty disconnected from reality

[09042014]

Look for high-paying boutiques that has low billing requirement and not known as "sweatshops". You can try NALP Directory, Billing Hour Requirement section

this really isn't very helpful, the billing req they publish is pretty disconnected from reality

http://www.nalpdirectory.com/employer_p ... hCondJSON=

Quinn NO BILLABLE MINIUM!

(Bills 195 hours a in a month)

(Gets his name put on a list that John Quinn reads)

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, I've looked on NALP, but sometimes the minimums say 1800 but then the average worked is like 2300. So I'm not sure what to believe.

[rayiner]

Define "a lot of time" with family. Any firm will have you working 50-60 hour weeks on average. There isn't such a thing as a "lifestyle" firm, especially in this economy. In general DC and regulatory work will be more "family friendly" only because of the nature of the work doesn't lend itself to tons of hours.

If you want lifestyle, head to a low-profile Federal agency with a strong 9-5 culture.

[Anonymous User]

I work DC biglaw. I'm at work about 10 hours a day M-F. Weekend work every other weekend for maybe 5-10 hours. Occasionally shit comes up that is short deadline, but it's not terrible.

That said some partners are worse than others. Mine is 10-6pm. But some are worse. Not sure if W&C, AP, and Covington are worse hours wise.

[Elston Gunn]

I work DC biglaw. I'm at work about 10 hours a day M-F. Weekend work every other weekend for maybe 5-10 hours. Occasionally shit comes up that is short deadline, but it's not terrible.

That said some partners are worse than others. Mine is 10-6pm. But some are worse. Not sure if W&C, AP, and Covington are worse hours wise.

That's nice to hear. Are you in lit?

[Anonymous User]

Do you have ties to any non-major (NYC, DC, LA, SF, Chi) market? That would be a good area to explore as well, especially given your credentials.

[Anonymous User]

actually your best bet is actually to go to a top v10 firm's least prestigious practice area. i think its easier to hide out in the large firms as a low biller, where they will put up with you for a while before pushing you out. for instance look at the v10's ranking in smaller niches such as real estate, erisa, bankruptcy, derivatives and then go to one that is in band 4. these are the pple who will have really low billable, and most likely the v10 will put up with it because everyone needs a RE, erisa, etc department. of course, these departments will be small and youll have to hustle you're way in once you are there (i would not recommend telling a v10 firm you want to join their band 4 real estate group).

[IAFG]

actually your best bet is actually to go to a top v10 firm's least prestigious practice area. i think its easier to hide out in the large firms as a low biller, where they will put up with you for a while before pushing you out. for instance look at the v10's ranking in smaller niches such as real estate, erisa, bankruptcy, derivatives and then go to one that is in band 4. these are the pple who will have really low billable, and most likely the v10 will put up with it because everyone needs a RE, erisa, etc department. of course, these departments will be small and youll have to hustle you're way in once you are there (i would not recommend telling a v10 firm you want to join their band 4 real estate group).

I am intrigued by this strategy but you can cross BK off the list. No V10 has a lifestyle-ish BK group.

[homestyle28]

Google Grand Rapids, MI law firms. apply. That's your best bet.

[chem]

A friend told me Ropes & Gray in Boston? Not sure if true though

[wert3813]

A friend told me Ropes & Gray in Boston? Not sure if true though

They have that rep and it's probably true to some degree. But it's so practice group/partner dependent. Plenty of R&Gs associates work 2300-2700.

ETA: Hogan and Cooley also have this rep. But the larger point is if you really want lifestyle you should be looking for mid and small law shops. Course those are hard to find (so hard that some people would say it's a flame) and they can bring their own problems.

[Anonymous User]

A friend told me Ropes & Gray in Boston? Not sure if true though

They have that rep and it's probably true to some degree. But it's so practice group/partner dependent. Plenty of R&Gs associates work 2300-2700.

They call it Ropes & Chains for a reason. The people there are certainly pleasant, but if you're doing, say, PE work for Bain, you won't have that work/life balance OP is looking for.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for all the suggestions! Really helpful! I have ties to San Diego (parents retired there, sister lives there with her family), so might give that a shot, although I hear San Diego is really tough to crack.

My partner's company has an office in Boulder, CO - that could be an option too.

Would working wills/estates/trusts be considered one of the less prestigious practice areas? What about tax?

[Anonymous User]

A non-litigation boutique where you paid a percentage of your billed hours.

I work at one. Some people work a lot and get the biglaw compensation. Others take it very easy and get paid less.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for all the suggestions! Really helpful! I have ties to San Diego (parents retired there, sister lives there with her family), so might give that a shot, although I hear San Diego is really tough to crack.

My partner's company has an office in Boulder, CO - that could be an option too.

Would working wills/estates/trusts be considered one of the less prestigious practice areas? What about tax?

All Boulder offices are tiny and extremely sought after. Not that it's not worth trying, but, well, good luck.

[smokeylarue]

In general, non-NYC offices will have slightly better hours across the board.

[ChardPennington]

If you don't have debt, why work for a big firm at all? See if you can find something at a high quality smaller firm or public agency.

If you really want to work for a firm, what are your location preferences? If you're really flexible, consider a smaller city if you can pull it off (obviously you've got the resume with your grades and law school, but small markets are often rabid about hiring people with local ties.)

When you're interviewing, talk to other associates. Ask them what their average day looks like, how often they work weekends, etc. Also, ask if they have families. If most of the associates you meet are married with kids, that's a really good sign that the firm will respect family time commitments.

[IAFG]

If you don't have debt, why work for a big firm at all? See if you can find something at a high quality smaller firm or public agency.

If you really want to work for a firm, what are your location preferences? If you're really flexible, consider a smaller city if you can pull it off (obviously you've got the resume with your grades and law school, but small markets are often rabid about hiring people with local ties.)

When you're interviewing, talk to other associates. Ask them what their average day looks like, how often they work weekends, etc. Also, ask if they have families. If most of the associates you meet are married with kids, that's a really good sign that the firm will respect family time commitments.

I am a lot more impressed by female associates with kids than just associates. If all the parents are guys with SAHM wives, it doesn't say much. If you ask the moms and they explain how they have two au pairs who share the burden, well.

[ChardPennington]

If you don't have debt, why work for a big firm at all? See if you can find something at a high quality smaller firm or public agency.

If you really want to work for a firm, what are your location preferences? If you're really flexible, consider a smaller city if you can pull it off (obviously you've got the resume with your grades and law school, but small markets are often rabid about hiring people with local ties.)

When you're interviewing, talk to other associates. Ask them what their average day looks like, how often they work weekends, etc. Also, ask if they have families. If most of the associates you meet are married with kids, that's a really good sign that the firm will respect family time commitments.

I am a lot more impressed by female associates with kids than just associates. If all the parents are guys with SAHM wives, it doesn't say much. If you ask the moms and they explain how they have two au pairs who share the burden, well.

All valid points, but I still think that an office with a lot of parents is likely to be more supportive of family obligations than an office with none or relatively few. As far as indicators that OP can evaluate in the extremely minimal sample size of an interview, it's probably a decent one.

But yeah, female associates having kids definitely says more about the firm than male associates having kids. 100% agreed on that point.

[Kronk]

Thanks for all the suggestions! Really helpful! I have ties to San Diego (parents retired there, sister lives there with her family), so might give that a shot, although I hear San Diego is really tough to crack.

My partner's company has an office in Boulder, CO - that could be an option too.

Would working wills/estates/trusts be considered one of the less prestigious practice areas? What about tax?

All Boulder offices are tiny and extremely sought after. Not that it's not worth trying, but, well, good luck.

He could commute to Denver but it is still pretty difficult. I'd go as far as to say impossible in Boulder. They don't hire SAs (except maybe Holland & Hart) and most of them are just small offices that you get put in if you end up in a given practice group or with a given client. Other than that, it's all lateral hiring.

[Emma.]

firms . . . that have a stellar life/work balance?


Thoughts?

LOL.