Firms to Avoid Forum

[androstan]

We need a law firm shitlist. Firms that have seriously screwed over incoming associates without proper justification. OCIers deserve to know which firms to avoid and these firms deserve to pay the price of their decision.

I'll start with two firms on the list and people let me know what to add. Please link to the available evidence of the alleged misconduct.

Winston & Strawn, no-offered 1/3 of its SA's in 2012, also I think it no-offered one of the greatest TLSers
Brown Rudnick, Rescinded on nearly half of its incoming class on the eve of graduation
Patton Boggs, being sued for fraud by Chevron and struggling to hold onto partners (LinkRemoved)
Dickstein Shapiro, Huge drop in lawyer headcount over the past year, including partners and associates, and had a terrible year in general
Kasowitz Benson, Freaking rescinded a summer associate offer and routinely "cold offers." So 2L's you should know that published 100% offer rates are not really 100%.

Latham & Watkins is currently on the bubble for me but I'm very close to adding it to the list.

[jarofsoup]

We need a law firm shitlist. Firms that have seriously screwed over incoming associates without proper justification. OCIers deserve to know which firms to avoid and these firms deserve to pay the price of their decision.

I'll start with two firms on the list and people let me know what to add. Please link to the available evidence of the alleged misconduct.

Winston & Strawn (no-offered 1/3 of its SA's in 2012, also I think it no-offered one of the greatest TLSers)
Brown Rudnick (Rescinded on nearly half of its incoming class on the eve of graduation)

lol. A bit strong. I do not think most students have a choice to avoid law firms that give them offers. Also I do not see a lack of proper justification...I see firms that are not financially stable.

This is economic reality. Yes its harsh, but a SA, like going to a good school and having good grades, no longer entitles you to anything. That is an important lesson to learn. There is nothing evil about these two firms. Any firm that gets financially strained will cut back. Very few partners at large firms (i.e., Jones Day) are going to take a pay cut or risk firm revenue so a pimply faced 3L has a job.

We are worthless commodities.

[androstan]

Anyone with two or more offers has the power to make a meaningful impact.

[Anonymous User]

We need a law firm shitlist. Firms that have seriously screwed over incoming associates without proper justification. OCIers deserve to know which firms to avoid and these firms deserve to pay the price of their decision.

I'll start with two firms on the list and people let me know what to add. Please link to the available evidence of the alleged misconduct.

Winston & Strawn (no-offered 1/3 of its SA's in 2012, also I think it no-offered one of the greatest TLSers)
Brown Rudnick (Rescinded on nearly half of its incoming class on the eve of graduation)

Latham & Watkins (Laid off 190 associates in one day on February 27, 2009, including many first years)

[Old Gregg]

Pretty sure we've already had this thread.

We need a law firm shitlist. Firms that have seriously screwed over incoming associates without proper justification. OCIers deserve to know which firms to avoid and these firms deserve to pay the price of their decision.

I'll start with two firms on the list and people let me know what to add. Please link to the available evidence of the alleged misconduct.

Winston & Strawn (no-offered 1/3 of its SA's in 2012, also I think it no-offered one of the greatest TLSers)
Brown Rudnick (Rescinded on nearly half of its incoming class on the eve of graduation)

Latham & Watkins (Laid off 190 associates in one day on February 27, 2009, including many first years)

Yeah it's funny because a 2L deciding between Latham and, say, Shearman, will probably still choose Latham because zomg V10 status.

[downinDtown]

So with the Brown Rudnick offer withdrawals, that probably means that there has been more 3L BigLaw Firing than Hiring this year.

And I think from now on every reference to BigLaw should be done this way so 0Ls know they are chasing a rainbow.

[androstan]

We need a law firm shitlist. Firms that have seriously screwed over incoming associates without proper justification. OCIers deserve to know which firms to avoid and these firms deserve to pay the price of their decision.

I'll start with two firms on the list and people let me know what to add. Please link to the available evidence of the alleged misconduct.

Winston & Strawn (no-offered 1/3 of its SA's in 2012, also I think it no-offered one of the greatest TLSers)
Brown Rudnick (Rescinded on nearly half of its incoming class on the eve of graduation)

Latham & Watkins (Laid off 190 associates in one day on February 27, 2009, including many first years)

I'm not going to include layoffs/rescissions/no-offers occurring in the midst of the recession.

[dwil770]

We need a law firm shitlist. Firms that have seriously screwed over incoming associates without proper justification. OCIers deserve to know which firms to avoid and these firms deserve to pay the price of their decision.

I'll start with two firms on the list and people let me know what to add. Please link to the available evidence of the alleged misconduct.

Winston & Strawn (no-offered 1/3 of its SA's in 2012, also I think it no-offered one of the greatest TLSers)
Brown Rudnick (Rescinded on nearly half of its incoming class on the eve of graduation)

lol. A bit strong. I do not think most students have a choice to avoid law firms that give them offers. Also I do not see a lack of proper justification...I see firms that are not financially stable.

This is economic reality. Yes its harsh, but a SA, like going to a good school and having good grades, no longer entitles you to anything. That is an important lesson to learn. There is nothing evil about these two firms. Any firm that gets financially strained will cut back. Very few partners at large firms (i.e., Jones Day) are going to take a pay cut or risk firm revenue so a pimply faced 3L has a job.

We are worthless commodities.

A no offer is shitty, but I think I agree with what you said. HOWEVER, I think it is reasonable to look at what Brown Rudnick did as uniquely bad.

[androstan]

To be clear, I never said there was anything "evil" about these firms. They exercised their market power and made business decisions to ruin a lot of young lawyers' careers. Young lawyers can similarly exert their power of choice and make the career decision to avoid a firm that has exhibited poor business judgment and reckless disregard for the impact of their decisions.

[Old Gregg]

We need a law firm shitlist. Firms that have seriously screwed over incoming associates without proper justification. OCIers deserve to know which firms to avoid and these firms deserve to pay the price of their decision.

I'll start with two firms on the list and people let me know what to add. Please link to the available evidence of the alleged misconduct.

Winston & Strawn (no-offered 1/3 of its SA's in 2012, also I think it no-offered one of the greatest TLSers)
Brown Rudnick (Rescinded on nearly half of its incoming class on the eve of graduation)

Latham & Watkins (Laid off 190 associates in one day on February 27, 2009, including many first years)

I'm not going to include layoffs/rescissions/no-offers occurring in the midst of the recession.

So this thread is pointless. Got it.

[kaiser]

We need a law firm shitlist. Firms that have seriously screwed over incoming associates without proper justification. OCIers deserve to know which firms to avoid and these firms deserve to pay the price of their decision.

I'll start with two firms on the list and people let me know what to add. Please link to the available evidence of the alleged misconduct.

Winston & Strawn (no-offered 1/3 of its SA's in 2012, also I think it no-offered one of the greatest TLSers)
Brown Rudnick (Rescinded on nearly half of its incoming class on the eve of graduation)

Latham & Watkins (Laid off 190 associates in one day on February 27, 2009, including many first years)

I'm not going to include layoffs/rescissions/no-offers occurring in the midst of the recession.

Then what the hell is the point of this thread? Its during the worst of times that you see a firm's true character (same could be said for an individual).

[Tanicius]

I'm not going to include layoffs/rescissions/no-offers occurring in the midst of the recession.

So this thread is pointless. Got it.

No, it's not. There are firms that are just douchey. One of my classmates was no-offered by Latham last year because they thought she was "too aloof." No warning, no prior talk about her attitude or interaction with other people. Just bam, good luck to you! Knowing her, she's a person who works hard and keeps her head down. Had nothing to do with financials. It was just a shitty, out-of-nowhere decision, probably because she just wasn't fratty enough for them. I think that's the kind of behavior that the OP wants to catalog here.

[jbagelboy]

There are still a lot of firms with 95%+ offer rates at end of summer, so to say that "an SA doesn't guarantee you anything anymore" isn't quite fair.

Firms that are no-offering, or worse, rescinding offers to 20%+ of the entering class deserve to be lambasted and publicly shamed. That's not quite part of the "new normal", at least not yet.

[El Pollito]

We need a law firm shitlist. Firms that have seriously screwed over incoming associates without proper justification. OCIers deserve to know which firms to avoid and these firms deserve to pay the price of their decision.

I'll start with two firms on the list and people let me know what to add. Please link to the available evidence of the alleged misconduct.

Winston & Strawn (no-offered 1/3 of its SA's in 2012, also I think it no-offered one of the greatest TLSers)
Brown Rudnick (Rescinded on nearly half of its incoming class on the eve of graduation)

Latham & Watkins (Laid off 190 associates in one day on February 27, 2009, including many first years)

I'm not going to include layoffs/rescissions/no-offers occurring in the midst of the recession.

So this thread is pointless. Got it.

TBF. it's pointless either way.

[androstan]

I'm not going to include layoffs/rescissions/no-offers occurring in the midst of the recession.

So this thread is pointless. Got it.

No, it's not. There are firms that are just douchey. One of my classmates was no-offered by Latham last year because they thought she was "too aloof." No warning, no prior talk about her attitude or interaction with other people. Just bam, good luck to you! Knowing her, she's a person who works hard and keeps her head down. Had nothing to do with financials. It was just a shitty, out-of-nowhere decision, probably because she just wasn't fratty enough for them. I think that's the kind of behavior that the OP wants to catalog here.

Yeah this. What Brown did was unconscionable and law students should know to avoid the firm if they can. Other examples of reckless career-ruining behavior should be compiled in one place and on one comprehensive law firm shitlist.

[WhirledWorld]

Weil laid off 60 associates this past summer: http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/ ... rtner-pay/

They blamed it on the recession, which was silly considering it was 2013 -- they should have planned better.

But they did give a generous 6-month severance package.

[Dafaq]

What I received was a signed welcome aboard letter that included the compensation.
There is nothing in the letter that would prohibit the firm (or me) from reneging. True for everyone ITT too?

[Pulsar]

There are still a lot of firms with 95%+ offer rates at end of summer, so to say that "an SA doesn't guarantee you anything anymore" isn't quite fair.

Firms that are no-offering, or worse, rescinding offers to 20%+ of the entering class deserve to be lambasted and publicly shamed. That's not quite part of the "new normal", at least not yet.

Inb4 cold offer

[ph14]

What I received was a signed welcome aboard letter that included the compensation.
There is nothing in the letter that would prohibit the firm (or me) from reneging. True for everyone ITT too?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment

[Ohiobumpkin]

What I received was a signed welcome aboard letter that included the compensation.
There is nothing in the letter that would prohibit the firm (or me) from reneging. True for everyone ITT too?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment

lol!

[Dafaq]

I trust your word, you trust mine arrangement. End of story.

[AntipodeanPhil]

Weren't there some second- or third-hand rumors on TLS to the effect that White & Case laid off a significant number of 1st year associates in NY last year?

[Anonymous User]

Willkie apparently laid off first-years during the recession. Met one who never recovered and is still on the doc review circuit.

[IAFG]

Weil laid off 60 associates this past summer: http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/06/24/ ... rtner-pay/

They blamed it on the recession, which was silly considering it was 2013 -- they should have planned better.

But they did give a generous 6-month severance package.

I mean, it is still the recession in that people have been hanging on longer and firms plan for people to have good exit options that would siphon them off.

[piccolittle]

Weren't there some second- or third-hand rumors on TLS to the effect that White & Case laid off a significant number of 1st year associates in NY last year?

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=195017.