Non-Legal 1L Summer Position Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hey guys,

Current 1L here. Just wondering if it's bad for me to take an internship position at Deloitte Consulting over this summer in their consulting branch rather than legal branch.

Ultimately I would like to do IP Lit or Patent Pros (some interest in Corp. transactional but not too sure) at Biglaw.

General info:
I'm CS/EE, taking the patent bar this summer, T1, top 30%. I wasn't able to secure anything for the summer except for a Research Assistant position (Patent litigation matters related).

General Concerns:
I'm afraid that doing non-legal work would hinder my chances at OCI/jobfairs for 2L summer. However, as I am K-JD, an attorney told me that having some corporate experience over the summer in conjunction with legal experience would be great for me to show that I'm capable of working in a firm environment.

Questions:
Is this credited or would firms be wary that I may be a flight risk?
Is a research assistant position too "small" of a position to have in conjunction with a consulting position? (10-12h/week).

Thanks guys,

-anon-

[sundontshine]

You would be certifiably insane to pass up a Deloitte consulting offer. Go for it.

[goldeneye]

Just be sure you have an answer for firms why you didn't do something legal when they ask you in OCI interviews.

[Anonymous User]

Same Anon here,

Thanks for the response guys.
Would it be justified if I said: I didn't have work experience and I wanted to show that I can work in a corporate/firm environment?

If not, what would be a better way to explain this non-legal position. I'm assuming being an RA for a summer doesn't qualify as having enough legal experience 1L summer. Is my assumption wrong?

[09042014]

Same Anon here,

Thanks for the response guys.
Would it be justified if I said: I didn't have work experience and I wanted to show that I can work in a corporate/firm environment?

If not, what would be a better way to explain this non-legal position. I'm assuming being an RA for a summer doesn't qualify as having enough legal experience 1L summer. Is my assumption wrong?

RA is fine. If you can do both do it. There is a stigma to not doing legal work. My bro worked at Goldman in a non legal role for 1L and did remarkably shitty for his grades.

[Anonymous User]

Same Anon here,

Thanks for the response guys.
Would it be justified if I said: I didn't have work experience and I wanted to show that I can work in a corporate/firm environment?

If not, what would be a better way to explain this non-legal position. I'm assuming being an RA for a summer doesn't qualify as having enough legal experience 1L summer. Is my assumption wrong?

RA is fine. If you can do both do it. There is a stigma to not doing legal work. My bro worked at Goldman in a non legal role for 1L and did remarkably shitty for his grades.

I would be doing RA work no matter what but that bolded part is what I was worried about. Did they say that the non legal role was the reason?

A few professors are making calls for me at the PTO so if I get a PTO position, I guess I should take that over the consulting position?

[09042014]

Same Anon here,

Thanks for the response guys.
Would it be justified if I said: I didn't have work experience and I wanted to show that I can work in a corporate/firm environment?

If not, what would be a better way to explain this non-legal position. I'm assuming being an RA for a summer doesn't qualify as having enough legal experience 1L summer. Is my assumption wrong?

RA is fine. If you can do both do it. There is a stigma to not doing legal work. My bro worked at Goldman in a non legal role for 1L and did remarkably shitty for his grades.

I would be doing RA work no matter what but that bolded part is what I was worried about. Did they say that the non legal role was the reason?

A few professors are making calls for me at the PTO so if I get a PTO position, I guess I should take that over the consulting position?

They didn't say, but the guy was good enough at interviewing to get Goldman Sachs, had a 3.9 and went 1/10 in the V10. Only 2 offers total. I'm pretty sure that was the problem.

I dunno about PTO vs. Consulting. PTO is safer, but consulting is $$$. How much is Deloitte paying?

[Anonymous User]

Same Anon here,

Thanks for the response guys.
Would it be justified if I said: I didn't have work experience and I wanted to show that I can work in a corporate/firm environment?

If not, what would be a better way to explain this non-legal position. I'm assuming being an RA for a summer doesn't qualify as having enough legal experience 1L summer. Is my assumption wrong?

RA is fine. If you can do both do it. There is a stigma to not doing legal work. My bro worked at Goldman in a non legal role for 1L and did remarkably shitty for his grades.

I would be doing RA work no matter what but that bolded part is what I was worried about. Did they say that the non legal role was the reason?

A few professors are making calls for me at the PTO so if I get a PTO position, I guess I should take that over the consulting position?

They didn't say, but the guy was good enough at interviewing to get Goldman Sachs, had a 3.9 and went 1/10 in the V10. Only 2 offers total. I'm pretty sure that was the problem.

I dunno about PTO vs. Consulting. PTO is safer, but consulting is $$$. How much is Deloitte paying?

wow, that's pretty harsh... I guess best bet is that it was the non-legal related summer position.

As for pay, not sure yet. Getting in through connections and didn't ask about pay yet. It'll be a standard internship position though so I'm assuming I'd get paid on the same scale. hopefully. According to ask.com (talk about reliability), "Summer Associate Interns at Deloitte average $7,958 per month in income, with a range of $3,850 to $12,000." http://internships.about.com/od/corpora ... loitte.htm. That would be nice...

As of now, I'd rather be in law than consulting but consulting has always been a fallback option if I bomb the legal job search. (I'd take either really, just want law more).

I guess a more personalized cost-benefit analysis would be in order. Which I'll talk about with my SO.

[sparty99]

If I couldn't secure a decent paying legal gig, I would do the Consulting and the RA. You can always "test the waters" and see if you get interviews w/ Deloitte Consulting on your resume. Also, you can always just put the RA gig on your resume and use Deloitte as a backup if you strike out at 2L OCI. At least you will have Deloitte for 2L summer hopefully. Also, possibly can move into their Tax Group post grad if you strike out.

However, it's also important how you "sell the Deloitte experience." Working at Deloitte is similar to working at a large law firm. You are working with clients, you are supposed to solve problems. You are billing hours. The consultants are top-notch. The clients are demanding. By working at Deloitte, you will start to see how the "client" thinks. Law and Consulting are both professional services. You understand the "business" side of the law better after working at Deloitte.

Because you are K-JD, you can say that you wanted professional services experience rather than working in a clinic. But you would also really have to sell your RA position. Show them that you learned the law this summer, drafted memos.

[jbagelboy]

If I couldn't secure a decent paying legal gig, I would do the Consulting and the RA. You can always "test the waters" and see if you get interviews w/ Deloitte Consulting on your resume. Also, you can always just put the RA gig on your resume and use Deloitte as a backup if you strike out at 2L OCI. At least you will have Deloitte for 2L summer hopefully. Also, possibly can move into their Tax Group post grad if you strike out.

However, it's also important how you "sell the Deloitte experience." Working at Deloitte is similar to working at a large law firm. You are working with clients, you are supposed to solve problems. You are billing hours. The consultants are top-notch. The clients are demanding. By working at Deloitte, you will start to see how the "client" thinks. Law and Consulting are both professional services. You understand the "business" side of the law better after working at Deloitte.

Because you are K-JD, you can say that you wanted professional services experience rather than working in a clinic. But you would also really have to sell your RA position. Show them that you learned the law this summer, drafted memos.

I agree that it may come down to how you sell it, but I think the risk of a non-legal job is weightier than sparty is making it out to be and the benefits of the white collar-ness of your experience are more muted here based on what employers are looking for in a 1L summer.

I worked in consulting before law school at a firm comparable to Deloitte (was choosing b/t deloitte and this firm among others ect) and I can tell you, you won't be making legal arguments, doing legal writing, drafting briefs, going to court/depositions, interacting significantly with attorneys, doing legal research (westlaw ect) or any of the other key functions employers may be looking for you to be able to describe in a packaged 20 min OCI interview. This type of experience looks great before law school, both via company name signaling and demonstrating you can work in high pressure professional environments, but it doesn't have what oci interviewers are looking for: interaction with law and legal arguments, and skills-wise, ability to write and research. Client contact is great, but its not the meat of a 2L SA or 1st yr associate's tasks. Also, it may show some reluctance to actually want to become a practicing attorney.

As DF pointed out, even arguably the most prestigious name outside law (Goldman) served as a negative at OCI. If its all you got, take it, but the "professionalness" of consulting does not compensate for its lack of "legalness" and the training/skills/interest law firms are really looking for.

[unlicensedpotato]

How badly do you need the cash? We don't know how well your school places in big law, but you're IP and have decent grades. A 2L SA would pay you $3077 per week guaranteed, equal to the max on that Deloitte scale and almost double the average. And that's just taking into account the next summer. Only you can make the decision but just be sure you're thinking appropriately long-term. The advice you received from the attorney seems very odd.

[Unagi]

Do both Deloitte and the RA gig. Deloitte will give you connections and will look good on your resume.

You will have the RA, it's not like you'll have 0 legal jobs on your resume. I've met people that worked only as RAs during 1L summer and got big law afterwards.

I read the post about the guy that went to Goldman. We'll never know why he only got 2 V10 offers, maybe it was because of Goldman, maybe it was just because even though he is awesome, the firms found people they liked more for whatever other reason.

[09042014]

Do both Deloitte and the RA gig. Deloitte will give you connections and will look good on your resume.

You will have the RA, it's not like you'll have 0 legal jobs on your resume. I've met people that worked only as RAs during 1L summer and got big law afterwards.

I read the post about the guy that went to Goldman. We'll never know why he only got 2 V10 offers, maybe it was because of Goldman, maybe it was just because even though he is awesome, the firms found people they liked more for whatever other reason.

RA is fine. The TLS myth that RAing looks terrible doesn't seem to be accurate. I RA'd and got big law. So did tons of people.

I agree we'll never know.

Since he's doing both, I think it' fine.

[rad lulz]

.

[Anonymous User]

I go to a T14 and there was an individual on a recent panel of alumni who is currently working a PI job, but they had graduated jobless and it apparently took them a while to find work. What had they done during their 1L summer? Goldman Sachs. They only mentioned this in passing and didn't say that it negatively affected their results at OCI, but I couldn't help thinking the entire time, "Why did you do that if you wanted to go do something related to the law?"

(Or based on what Desert Fox also said, perhaps law firms just hate Goldman.)

[Anonymous User]

Just woke up to see a bunch of replies. Thanks so much everybody! I think I'll be taking it unless I land a full-time legal summer position on top of my RA position. Even if I take it, I'll be RAing so I'll probably just put down the RA position on my resume.

[unlicensedpotato]

I clearly am out-voted here. And maybe you're fine as far as legal work goes with the RA. I just know that if my goal was big law, and I was already a borderline candidate (which is what top 30% is at a T1, with a boost for IP), I would not want to walk into OCI with my only legal experience being a 10 hour per week RA gig. You risk closing this door forever in exchange for the Deloitte money that is completely insignificant in the long-run.

[09042014]

I clearly am out-voted here. And maybe you're fine as far as legal work goes with the RA. I just know that if my goal was big law, and I was already a borderline candidate (which is what top 30% is at a T1, with a boost for IP), I would not want to walk into OCI with my only legal experience being a 10 hour per week RA gig. You risk closing this door forever in exchange for the Deloitte money that is completely insignificant in the long-run.

You don't have to tell them it was 10 hours a week.

[sparty99]

I clearly am out-voted here. And maybe you're fine as far as legal work goes with the RA. I just know that if my goal was big law, and I was already a borderline candidate (which is what top 30% is at a T1, with a boost for IP), I would not want to walk into OCI with my only legal experience being a 10 hour per week RA gig. You risk closing this door forever in exchange for the Deloitte money that is completely insignificant in the long-run.

You don't have to tell them it was 10 hours a week.

Yeah, dude. Learn how to play "the game."