Tax Law Practice Group? Forum

[Yukos]

I know this is a huge overreaction but I'm really loving my Fed Income Tax class and starting to think about at least trying out tax law. Two questions. 1) Obviously I want to try out what actual practice is like before dedicating myself to it. Assuming I get a firm at OCI that has a strong tax practice, is it usually possible to pick up a few tax assignments, or is it too specialized? 2) Looking at NALP, outside of NY tax practice groups seem tiny--often less than five associates. Is getting into one of these groups just insanely hard, especially without any tax/accounting background?

Thanks guys.

[Anonymous User]

Firm dependent from what I can tell, some want you to commit to tax up front or at least a full rotation through it, while others will let you dabble. Like you acknowledged it's tied to the size of their tax group and the way they do their summer assignments generally. The firm I'll be at (NYC) doesn't do summer rotations, it does things assignment by assignment and will let you pick up tax things that way.

You should probably take corporate and partnership tax next year though if you are serious about it. I was told it is all but a requirement to get assignments.

[nomdeplumeify]

I know nothing about how firms deal with practice groups in tax. However, try to do some volunteer work at a low income taxpayer clinic as a volunteer if you have the time or the ability to do this. It may not be big firm specific tax work but you can have some sort of idea if you like working in that area of tax.

[Yukos]

Firm dependent from what I can tell, some want you to commit to tax up front or at least a full rotation through it, while others will let you dabble. Like you acknowledged it's tied to the size of their tax group and the way they do their summer assignments generally. The firm I'll be at (NYC) doesn't do summer rotations, it does things assignment by assignment and will let you pick up tax things that way.

You should probably take corporate and partnership tax next year though if you are serious about it. I was told it is all but a requirement to get assignments.

Thanks so much, this is really helpful to know. I was definitely planning on taking more tax classes, if only to get a better sense if I like tax in general or just this course/professor. I just wish I had more opportunity to figure these things out before picking my firm (assuming I get an offer) during OCI.

[Anonymous User]

I know nothing about how firms deal with practice groups in tax. However, try to do some volunteer work at a low income taxpayer clinic as a volunteer if you have the time or the ability to do this. It may not be big firm specific tax work but you can have some sort of idea if you like working in that area of tax.

I know you're just trying to be helpful, but this couldn't be more wrong. I'm a biglaw associate doing transactional tax work and I volunteered for VITA back in the day. The two couldn't be more different, and you could hate one and love the other. In VITA you're helping an individual fill out tax returns on a computer, whereas in most law firms you never even see a tax return. (perhaps it's different for solo practitioners or small law firms though)

As a previous poster said, corp tax and partnerships will help. You may also consider international tax even if you don't plan on doing international tax; every transaction is so cross-border now that most tax lawyers at least have a working knowledge of international tax.

Are you looking to do small law firm, medium, big? Perhaps knowing that answer will help.

And to answer your original question: yes, most law firms, if you express an interest, will let you try some tax assignments. Yes, it is very specialized, but there is always a way to get a summer involved even if it's on a small piece.

[nomdeplumeify]

I know you're just trying to be helpful, but this couldn't be more wrong. I'm a biglaw associate doing transactional tax work and I volunteered for VITA back in the day. The two couldn't be more different, and you could hate one and love the other. In VITA you're helping an individual fill out tax returns on a computer, whereas in most law firms you never even see a tax return. (perhaps it's different for solo practitioners or small law firms though)

As I said before, low income taxpayer clinic, not VITA. I know what VITA is, and I agree, VITA has literally NOTHING to do with tax law. But low income taxpayer clinics deal with tax controversy, which is an area of tax law.

[KD35]

I know this isn't 100% completely on point with what you were asking, but also over the next little bit consider if you would want to do GULC/NYU Tax LLM program or something like that. Or do some research on it.

[Yukos]

I'll have a ton of debt so I'm looking exclusively at big law (or a tax boutique that pays similar) and LLM is not an option.

[unlicensedpotato]

Go for firms in OCI with tax sections and say you're interested in doing some/all tax. Summer at this firm and work hard on those assignments. Most firms want you to try out different groups and will particularly encourage you if you want to do tax stuff. Get an offer from said firm. Your work on the assignments (and the firm's needs) will determine whether you get a spot in the tax section. Lack of accounting/tax experience won't hold you back. The work is generally researching, thinking, and writing, same as other legal stuff (it can involve numbers but usually doesn't involve math beyond arithmetic, and if it does you'll use spreadsheets). It's the same as most legal hiring, depends primarily on your grades and to some extent your personality. Tax groups are smaller but also most people aren't interested in tax at all. If you're interested in it and do well on the assignments, you'll get a spot.

Edit: Agree with above anon, the main tax classes you will likely be looking at for 2L year are Corporate, Partnership, and International. Try and spread them out over the 2 semesters so you can focus on them. O&G Tax if your school has it. I would recommend securities regulation as well.

[quakeroats]

I know this is a huge overreaction but I'm really loving my Fed Income Tax class and starting to think about at least trying out tax law. Two questions. 1) Obviously I want to try out what actual practice is like before dedicating myself to it. Assuming I get a firm at OCI that has a strong tax practice, is it usually possible to pick up a few tax assignments, or is it too specialized? 2) Looking at NALP, outside of NY tax practice groups seem tiny--often less than five associates. Is getting into one of these groups just insanely hard, especially without any tax/accounting background?

Thanks guys.

As has been pointed out, the tax work a lawyer does looks different than what an accountant would do. Tax law is more about structuring transactions to be able to take advantage of particular kinds of tax treatment (take this election, move earnings into country x) than the auditing and consulting accounting firms do. By way of example, here's a former Cleary tax partner that now teaches at USC going over the tax arrangement big tech companies use to shield a lot of their income from taxation--creatively referred to as a Double Irish Dutch Sandwich:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm? ... id=1791769

[Anonymous User]

take corp/partnership tax before you decide to do this. Those classes arae much harder and different than FIT

[Anonymous User]

I know this isn't 100% completely on point with what you were asking, but also over the next little bit consider if you would want to do GULC/NYU Tax LLM program or something like that. Or do some research on it.

There's really no need to get a Tax LLM if OP can get a major NYC firm... Most of the tax practices there will pay for you to get an LLM part time if they want you to get one...