Loyola PLIP 2014 Thread - Strategies? Forum

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:20 pm

I did a quick search and there didn't seem to be much for the 2014 PLIP program; I thought I would ask a few questions that might interest other patent people as well, and see if anyone at TLS would entertain them...

First, I am an undergrad biology major, chemistry minor. While I have a vault guide that discuses firms in more details, I am wondering if there is any way to find out which firms are specifically focusing on bio/pharma related patents. I realize that I can go to the websites and check out the different, specific patent areas but a list to cross reference with the firms from last years PLIP would be amazingly helpful.

Second, I am wondering specifically about how to target firms. I am at a T25 with a GPA that is at least over 50% (ratings do not come out until second semester grades). Am I wasting bids by applying to the likes of Skadden, Jones Day and Finnegan? Should I use all 32 of my bids?

Third, how did you guys manage submitting the applications in the middle of finals (at least, that's when it was for my school)?

Any advice much appreciated! Cheers

POTUS2044 · Post by **POTUS2044** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:47 pm

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 4:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I did a quick search and there didn't seem to be much for the 2014 PLIP program; I thought I would ask a few questions that might interest other patent people as well, and see if anyone at TLS would entertain them...

First, I am an undergrad biology major, chemistry minor. While I have a vault guide that discuses firms in more details, I am wondering if there is any way to find out which firms are specifically focusing on bio/pharma related patents. I realize that I can go to the websites and check out the different, specific patent areas but a list to cross reference with the firms from last years PLIP would be amazingly helpful.

Second, I am wondering specifically about how to target firms. I am at a T25 with a GPA that is at least over 50% (ratings do not come out until second semester grades). Am I wasting bids by applying to the likes of Skadden, Jones Day and Finnegan? Should I use all 32 of my bids?

Third, how did you guys manage submitting the applications in the middle of finals (at least, that's when it was for my school)?

Any advice much appreciated! Cheers

1) I don't believe there's a specific list discussing what technical areas the firms have practice groups in other than going to their websites or through vault, etc. When you bid, some firms will specify if they are looking for a particular technical background.

2) Apply to any firm you want. Firms are often willing to dip lower into a class for IP candidates, and this includes firms like Jones Day, particularly if you have a valuable background or experience. PLIP is early so SA classes are wide open at this point.

3) Not sure if it was a serious question but absolutely use all your bids. You're not guaranteed any screeners so why lose out on potential interviews because you had unused bids? I recommend bidding heavily on firms that won't be at your school's OCI. That's what I did at least.

4)Bidding begins mid April which is 2-3 weeks before finals begin for most schools, so this this shouldn't be a problem. Also once you have your resume, bidding consists of simply uploading the resume/Transcripts once to simplicity and then clicking which firms to bid on. It doesn't take very long, and very few firms at Loyal even wanted a cover letter.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:45 pm

If you want to do patent prosecution, your background puts you at a disadvantage (compared with Ph.D. holders or M.S. degree holder with work experience in Bio/Chem). Serious players with clients in the Bio/Chem field require an advanced degree for their attorneys. I had a Ph.D. in organic chemistry and I had four on-site interviews with v50 - v100 law firms. In two firms, all attorneys in the Chemistry group are Ph.D. holders; one is about half and half; and only one has no Ph.D. holder (although the managing partner of the office is a Ph.D.) Since your major is biology, I would predict that there will be more Ph.D.'s in the biology field than in the chemistry field in patent prosecution groups.

If you want to do patent litigation, you have to have excellent grades from a T25 and, maybe, a moot court experience to increase your stock as a litigator.

Have you taken the patent bar? If yes, that is a plus. If not, it is not an interview killer.

Finally, PLIP is not the primary venue for firms to hire SA, but a chance for them to scout the field. Your OCI will be a much better chance for you to secure callbacks. However, certain law firms have the policy that if you have been interviewed by them at PLIP, you should not sign up for OCI in the same year.

Personally, I would use PLIP as a training camp for interview, hone my skills and get a few connections with firms if possible. Your focus should be on OCI.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:58 pm

I'm going to disagree with the poster who came before me on a few points, having gone through PLIP last year from a T20 with just above median grades and a weaker scientific background than yours (not a patent bar eligible major, but with patent eligibility under category B).

Patent prosecution is going to favor Ph.D. for sure, so I agree on that point.

For litigation, I don't think the academic standard is as high as the above poster said. I was going solely for litigation and received a good number of interviews through PLIP. That being said, I wasn't swimming in interviews or callbacks. My friends who did have excellent grades had enormous numbers of interviews and basically didn't have to do OCI. I personally didn't know anyone who was in between those two experiences.

I am a firm believer in you doing your own research for PLIP because doing it yourself will burn those firm names into your memory and will be helpful in the future. You should definitely use all 32 bids and you should bid on the firms that you think are a good fit. For example, I did not apply to many small firms because I knew they wanted more prosecution and were not really what I was looking for in terms of job stability (some don't give offers after a 2L summer).

I don't remember having a problem with submitting the bids. I just sat down and did it. As with most things in law school, you just have to prioritize what matters and cut out things that don't matter.

patogordo · Post by **patogordo** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:00 pm

you don't need much to submit bids. just resume and transcript, if i remember right. i don't think you need cover letters or writing samples. definitely use all your bids. you can decide whether it's worth it to attend once you see your preselects.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:42 pm

MarcZero · Post by **MarcZero** » Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:On this topic...
1. Would it be possible to interview at PLIP at a firm that has both IP and corporate but later change to corporate? Or should I just not bid on them during PLIP and only bid during OCI?
2. Are there potential disadvantages to bidding? Some I can think of include: I bid on IP at a firm but get rejected due to lack of WE or EE degree. I bid again during OCI (to work in their corporate department instead) but because I was rejected, it hurts my chances (or maybe they think I'm disingenuous in terms of either IP or corporate work since I'm applying for both)
Would TCR be to use PLIP to bid ONLY on firms that have a strong IP practice (ie: a firm like QE)

Basically, my preferences are corporate >>>>> patent lit >>>>>>>>>> no biglaw job and I'm unsure what to do

1. From my experience, the firms that don't just do patents keep their patent areas pretty separate. While a SA in non-patent areas will gain experience from a bunch of legal topics (tax, corporate, transactions, estates, etc.) a patent SA will JUST do patent work. The two are not interchangeable from what I've seen. If you get a SA spot through PLIP, you cannot ask the firm to change you to a general SA later on. It's one or the other.

2. The PLIP bidding is separate from any other bidding. From my experience, you don't really harm yourself from bidding. Many of the larger firms use PLIP to take the first shots at the best candidates and they reserve most of the SA slots for PLIPers for sure. However, from my own experience, firms don't blacklist you if they didn't pick you for an interview slot. I have an interview next week for a firm that I had an interview with at PLIP and eventually received a rejection letter from last fall. This new interview was arranged through my school's outreach programs with the firm. Yes, I know I'm interviewing for one of their likely last spots, but it shows that even if you're rejected through PLIP, you still have a chance through other means. Plus, if you bid on a non-patent part of the firm through OCI, chances are good the needs for non-patent areas are different and they won't examine your credentials in the same way (and likely won't even be examined by the same person at all).

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:04 pm

IMHO, if you set eyes on two birds, you may end up getting none.

Aiming at one whole-heartedly, you may get it in the end.

Unless you are a great actor during interviews.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:On this topic...

I'm pretty set on doing corporate. However, I want to keep my options open. I would like to utilize PLIP just in case I strike out at OCI. I mean, I'll take IP work if that's all I get.

What would be the best strategy for this?
1. Would it be possible to interview at PLIP at a firm that has both IP and corporate but later change to corporate? Or should I just not bid on them during PLIP and only bid during OCI?
2. Are there potential disadvantages to bidding? Some I can think of include: I bid on IP at a firm but get rejected due to lack of WE or EE degree. I bid again during OCI (to work in their corporate department instead) but because I was rejected, it hurts my chances (or maybe they think I'm disingenuous in terms of either IP or corporate work since I'm applying for both)
Would TCR be to use PLIP to bid ONLY on firms that have a strong IP practice (ie: a firm like QE)

Basically, my preferences are corporate >>>>> patent lit >>>>>>>>>> no biglaw job and I'm unsure what to do

This will come down to how well you can sell yourself and your experience/background for the particular practice area. You can absolutely focus on IP at Loyola and corporate at OCI, I had several friends that did this. Just be ready to back it up, especially when they're asking you "Why IP?"

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:11 pm

Computer engineering major with two years of good work experience in the field.

I wish to pursue litigation in a V100 firm, but my grades are just slightly above median at a T30. Is it advisable that I go all out and bid for the major firms (V100) or should I bid safely (where I have a greater chance of being accepted) - given that my grades are not that great. (Although someone told me that the bar for EE/CE/CS majors is lower than bio-chem majors, but I am not so sure about it.)

Replies from people with the same background will be greatly helpful and appreciated.

Thanks!

314159265358979 · Post by **314159265358979** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:41 pm

V100 associate here. Got my job through PLIP a fear years ago. Willing to answer whatever questions people have that I can help with.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:53 pm

314159265358979 wrote:V100 associate here. Got my job through PLIP a fear years ago. Willing to answer whatever questions people have that I can help with.

Your school range, Approx rank, Undergrad/grad/technical background, WE, No. of Pre-selects, CBs and offers. Thanks!

lhanvt13 · Post by **lhanvt13** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 4:40 pm

is this going to be the general 2014 plip thread?

If so, I'm tagging along! CHOO CHOO!

Also, is it okay to ask about bidding strategies here once the firm list comes out? I have no idea how this bidding thing goes.

bulinus · Post by **bulinus** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:08 pm

lhanvt13 wrote:is this going to be the general 2014 plip thread?

If so, I'm tagging along! CHOO CHOO!

Also, is it okay to ask about bidding strategies here once the firm list comes out? I have no idea how this bidding thing goes.

I found some useful stuff in this thread. http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=205396

Have also heard from 2Ls that you get 32 bids, and then after the initial round, some firms register late, so you get even more to bid on those, too.

lhanvt13 · Post by **lhanvt13** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:16 pm

bulinus wrote:
lhanvt13 wrote:is this going to be the general 2014 plip thread?

If so, I'm tagging along! CHOO CHOO!

Also, is it okay to ask about bidding strategies here once the firm list comes out? I have no idea how this bidding thing goes.
I found some useful stuff in this thread. http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=205396

Have also heard from 2Ls that you get 32 bids, and then after the initial round, some firms register late, so you get even more to bid on those, too.

saw that, but couldn't figure out how to figure out what a "target/safety/reach" firm would be. Like, how do you qualify those or get statistics on those?

Jchance · Post by **Jchance** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:07 pm

lhanvt13 wrote: couldn't figure out how to figure out what a "target/safety/reach" firm would be. Like, how do you qualify those or get statistics on those?

Your school should have the statistics for each firm's GPA cutoffs.
"safety" means your GPA >> cutoff
"reach" means your GPA < cutoff, but u might get the IP bump.
not sure what "target" means.

lhanvt13 · Post by **lhanvt13** » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:21 pm

Jchance wrote:
lhanvt13 wrote: couldn't figure out how to figure out what a "target/safety/reach" firm would be. Like, how do you qualify those or get statistics on those?
Your school should have the statistics for each firm's GPA cutoffs.
"safety" means your GPA >> cutoff
"reach" means your GPA < cutoff, but u might get the IP bump.
not sure what "target" means.

Is there a way to get some other school's list? since my school has only sent like, maybe a handful of students to PLIP

kyle010723 · Post by **kyle010723** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:15 am

Went to PLIP last year. Will probably attend again this year. Happy to answer question if I can.

lhanvt13 · Post by **lhanvt13** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:22 pm

kyle010723 wrote:Went to PLIP last year. Will probably attend again this year. Happy to answer question if I can.

Thanks for offering to answer questions !
I've heard from some people that generally people don't get CBs/offers and only a few people sweep the floor at PLIP. Is this what you felt happened? how are the prospects for someone with REALLY crappy uGPAs? (specifically: 2.79uGPA 2.99LSACGPA; Computer Science).

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:27 pm

lhanvt13 wrote:
kyle010723 wrote:Went to PLIP last year. Will probably attend again this year. Happy to answer question if I can.
Thanks for offering to answer questions !
I've heard from some people that generally people don't get CBs/offers and only a few people sweep the floor at PLIP. Is this what you felt happened? how are the prospects for someone with REALLY crappy uGPAs? (specifically: 2.79uGPA 2.99LSACGPA; Computer Science).

Although I haven't yet gone to PLIP, I'd imagine that a poor uGPA will hurt you quite a bit. However, I have a feeling this could be overcome through a graduate degree (e.g., Masters) with a strong graduate GPA and/or publication history, and/or strong work experience that clearly provides you with excellent technical training. Also, a very strong law school GPA could help offset this as well. With that said, if you're K-JD with a mediocre law school GPA, I would guess it will be very tough to get CBs/offers.

lhanvt13 · Post by **lhanvt13** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
lhanvt13 wrote:
kyle010723 wrote:Went to PLIP last year. Will probably attend again this year. Happy to answer question if I can.
Thanks for offering to answer questions !
I've heard from some people that generally people don't get CBs/offers and only a few people sweep the floor at PLIP. Is this what you felt happened? how are the prospects for someone with REALLY crappy uGPAs? (specifically: 2.79uGPA 2.99LSACGPA; Computer Science).
Although I haven't yet gone to PLIP, I'd imagine that a poor uGPA will hurt you quite a bit. However, I have a feeling this could be overcome through a graduate degree (e.g., Masters) with a strong graduate GPA and/or publication history, and/or strong work experience that clearly provides you with excellent technical training. Also, a very strong law school GPA could help offset this as well. With that said, if you're K-JD with a mediocre law school GPA, I would guess it will be very tough to get CBs/offers.

currently mid T1 with 30% ... Are PatLit positions more lenient with undergrad grades?

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:10 pm

lhanvt13 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
lhanvt13 wrote:
kyle010723 wrote:Went to PLIP last year. Will probably attend again this year. Happy to answer question if I can.
Thanks for offering to answer questions !
I've heard from some people that generally people don't get CBs/offers and only a few people sweep the floor at PLIP. Is this what you felt happened? how are the prospects for someone with REALLY crappy uGPAs? (specifically: 2.79uGPA 2.99LSACGPA; Computer Science).
Although I haven't yet gone to PLIP, I'd imagine that a poor uGPA will hurt you quite a bit. However, I have a feeling this could be overcome through a graduate degree (e.g., Masters) with a strong graduate GPA and/or publication history, and/or strong work experience that clearly provides you with excellent technical training. Also, a very strong law school GPA could help offset this as well. With that said, if you're K-JD with a mediocre law school GPA, I would guess it will be very tough to get CBs/offers.
currently mid T1 with 30% ... Are PatLit positions more lenient with undergrad grades?

I would imagine so since patent lit requires much less, if any, technical background. However, patent lit is a very competitive field so law school GPA will matter a lot in terms of trying to compete for the available positions. I'd imagine uGPA would matter very little to them.

kyle010723 · Post by **kyle010723** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:02 pm

lhanvt13 wrote: Thanks for offering to answer questions !
I've heard from some people that generally people don't get CBs/offers and only a few people sweep the floor at PLIP. Is this what you felt happened? how are the prospects for someone with REALLY crappy uGPAs? (specifically: 2.79uGPA 2.99LSACGPA; Computer Science).

I do not know about sweeps, I had a decent amount, but I definitely know people with a lot more. And I can tell you that unfortunately, a crappy uGPA is really going to hinder your chance with patent pro (maybe if you are at MIT, they might overlook that). Most employers straight out ask you what happened. It is not a good feeling having to explain your GPA even as an engineering student.

kyle010723 · Post by **kyle010723** » Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote: Although I haven't yet gone to PLIP, I'd imagine that a poor uGPA will hurt you quite a bit. However, I have a feeling this could be overcome through a graduate degree (e.g., Masters) with a strong graduate GPA and/or publication history, and/or strong work experience that clearly provides you with excellent technical training. Also, a very strong law school GPA could help offset this as well. With that said, if you're K-JD with a mediocre law school GPA, I would guess it will be very tough to get CBs/offers.

I don't know if I agree with a graduate degree can overcome uGPA. Most firms do not really care about a graduate degree unless bio related. A strong work history can definitely overcome uGPA however.

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