International arbitration: better firm or specialized firm? Forum

[brownpride]

I'm highly interested in international arbitration, which I know is a tough field to break into. I'm fairly certain that I do indeed want to practice it. I'm slightly above median at HYS, and given my background and interests I feel that I may have a shot at getting into one of the firms that does arbitration work well at OCI this fall. Assuming offers from all the firms below (please don't comment on feasibility of getting these offers - this is for the purpose of discussion), is it better to start off at :

1. A firm that's highly ranked overall - for example a V10 like Cleary that has some good international arbitration work but isn't at the top of that field, or Covington/Arnold & Porter in DC that have good practices in this field as well but also great overall reputations?

or

2. A firm like White & Case or Freshfields, which have the top practices in the field both in the US and worldwide, have larger practices in the area with leading experts as partners, and where it's potentially possible to start in arbitration as a first year associate (unlike in the former category, where you may get an occasional case)? These firms are lower-ranked, however, and their practices in other areas - corporate work for the NY offices, govt-stuff for the DC offices, are not as strong as Cleary and Covington in the above examples.

I know that if I was uncertain about what I want to practice, at least in my first couple of years as a junior lawyer, it's probably better to choose a higher-ranked firm to keep more options open. But if I'm relatively certain that I'd like to focus on international arbitration, and were to hypothetically have all the above options, what would be the better choice?

Thanks for your feedback.

[MinEMorris]

I think it's hard for anyone on this board to give reliable advice for this question since no on likely has any experience developing a career in int'l arbitration. I think your best bet would be to look up who teaches the int'l commercial arbitration class at your school and e-mail him/her with your question. (At HYS, you should have an int'l commercial arbitration course, and the person who teaches it presumably has/had a successful career in the field.) Another option is to broach the subject when you interview or otherwise interface with firms. Alternatively, you can wait until you have an offer, and then e-mail someone in the firm who practices in int'l arbitration and ask them what they think the prospect of getting real int'l arbitration work is for an incoming associate. You might want to check with your OCS, though, to make sure that's an appropriate move.

For what it's worth, my guess is that you would want to go to the firm with the most reputable int'l arbitration practice that would let you work on int'l arbitration immediately. My sense is that int'l arbitration is an area with a relatively small circle of high-level practitioners. Breaking into that circle early on in your career would likely be more meaningful for your down-the-line prospects than simply coming from a prestigious firm.

One other potentially helpful tip. I've been told that if you want to break in to a specialized area, it helps to have a resume that demonstrates your interest and dedication. A good way to do this is to have a publication or two on the topic. It's shockingly easy to get published as a student, so you might consider doing an independent study with a professor to write an article or two on int'l arbitration and get them published.

Good luck, and congratulations on being above median at HYS. I'm sure you have a good legal career ahead of you.

[Anonymous User]

I'm highly interested in international arbitration, which I know is a tough field to break into. I'm fairly certain that I do indeed want to practice it. I'm slightly above median at HYS, and given my background and interests I feel that I may have a shot at getting into one of the firms that does arbitration work well at OCI this fall. Assuming offers from all the firms below (please don't comment on feasibility of getting these offers - this is for the purpose of discussion), is it better to start off at :

1. A firm that's highly ranked overall - for example a V10 like Cleary that has some good international arbitration work but isn't at the top of that field, or Covington/Arnold & Porter in DC that have good practices in this field as well but also great overall reputations?

or

2. A firm like White & Case or Freshfields, which have the top practices in the field both in the US and worldwide, have larger practices in the area with leading experts as partners, and where it's potentially possible to start in arbitration as a first year associate (unlike in the former category, where you may get an occasional case)? These firms are lower-ranked, however, and their practices in other areas - corporate work for the NY offices, govt-stuff for the DC offices, are not as strong as Cleary and Covington in the above examples.

I know that if I was uncertain about what I want to practice, at least in my first couple of years as a junior lawyer, it's probably better to choose a higher-ranked firm to keep more options open. But if I'm relatively certain that I'd like to focus on international arbitration, and were to hypothetically have all the above options, what would be the better choice?

Thanks for your feedback.

I would say definitely #2. I am at a firm that is like what you mention in #1 -- highly regarded, and we have some int'l arbitration, but it's not huge and it's rarely 100% of any associate's work. If it is definitely what you want to practice, you want to be able to dive in and get a full diet of arbitration, not just be one among several associates who are considered when the occasional arbitration comes around (and who are otherwise assigned to various general litigation projects).

[Anonymous User]

agree with anon above--if you definitely want arbitration, better to be at a firm with a separate, self-contained arbitration practice than one where you'll also be doing other lit. Also would look at whether they've tended to focus on investor-state or commercial (I assume you're more interested in the former) and whether they represent states or investors, if you care

[banker9]

I think it's hard for anyone on this board to give reliable advice for this question since no on likely has any experience developing a career in int'l arbitration. I think your best bet would be to look up who teaches the int'l commercial arbitration class at your school and e-mail him/her with your question. (At HYS, you should have an int'l commercial arbitration course, and the person who teaches it presumably has/had a successful career in the field.) Another option is to broach the subject when you interview or otherwise interface with firms. Alternatively, you can wait until you have an offer, and then e-mail someone in the firm who practices in int'l arbitration and ask them what they think the prospect of getting real int'l arbitration work is for an incoming associate. You might want to check with your OCS, though, to make sure that's an appropriate move.

For what it's worth, my guess is that you would want to go to the firm with the most reputable int'l arbitration practice that would let you work on int'l arbitration immediately. My sense is that int'l arbitration is an area with a relatively small circle of high-level practitioners. Breaking into that circle early on in your career would likely be more meaningful for your down-the-line prospects than simply coming from a prestigious firm.

One other potentially helpful tip. I've been told that if you want to break in to a specialized area, it helps to have a resume that demonstrates your interest and dedication. A good way to do this is to have a publication or two on the topic. It's shockingly easy to get published as a student, so you might consider doing an independent study with a professor to write an article or two on int'l arbitration and get them published.

Good luck, and congratulations on being above median at HYS. I'm sure you have a good legal career ahead of you.

I'm no expert, but I did work in int'l (commercial) arb my 1L summer and explored the field during OCI. I agree largely with the advice above.

Just to highlight, IMO, the main factor in deciding among firms should be likelihood you will get into the int'l arb practice group, as there really isn't too much such work in the US. I suppose it would generally be more likely at firms in OP's group 2; but even at somewhere like White and Case/Freshfields with relatively large intl' arb practice groups, there just isn't enough work to guarantee that you'll get a FT spot with the group. If you are really committed to intl arb (and I'm not entirely sure why you would be at this point), your best bet might be going for an even smaller/lower ranked firm that can commit to a position in intl arbitration group - e.g. I believe Herbert Smith Freehills just opened an NYC office that exclusively does intl arb work. Another option if you are really committed to the field is to work at an international office, as there is much more arbitration in offices like Paris, Singapore, London, etc.

Finally, in the event that you are unable/unwilling to secure a intl arb position specifically, my sense that it wouldn't be terribly bad to start off doing general litigation work and develop those skills. Ppl I worked with often termed arbitration, "litigation-light," and seemed to know lots of practitioners who originally started as general litigators. And in the US where there isn't too much arb specific work, there is lots of cross-over.

[Anonymous User]

I don't think your options are mutually exclusive (see e.g. Debevoise)
Also, consider whether the practice quality and opportunity between Band 1 and Band 2 is actually that significant for your purposes. I'm sure you've looked at: http://www.chambersandpartners.com/1278 ... /1#skill_2

[brownpride]

Thanks a lot for the advice, all. Banker9, you discussed the difficulty of getting a FT position in arbitration with one of these firms. Can you (or anyone else) comment on how and when one seeks out a full-time position from his/her firm like this? Do you discuss at OCI, indicating that you want to be hired into a specific practice group? Or do you seek out a commitment from the firm at the time they ask you to return at the end of your 2L summer?

[Anonymous User]

I summered at Cleary and I think it's probably a relatively good choice for you. You don't have to worry about getting into a "group" since there isn't a formal assignment system. There seemed to be enough international arbitration work to keep people busy, although I think only a handful of associates could be considered close to full time on international arbitration engagements. The client base at Cleary is somewhat unique since it's a lot of sovereigns and other high profile clients, not just commercial disputes between companies in different countries.

As far as the firm environment goes it's hard to get more job security and brand recognition than at a V10. Even if you only do some international arb for your first few years I have a feeling you would be able to sell that experience well with the Cleary name on your resume. The lockstep system for partners makes the environment much more collegial feeling and people freely move between projects for different people in different areas.

I would definitely interview with both sets of firms at OCI and make up your mind after you talk to people at both. I think there could be some distinct downsides in terms of flexibility if you wind up going to a less well known place specifically for international arbitration and then find that you don't like the people or the kind of work you are doing.

[banker9]

Thanks a lot for the advice, all. Banker9, you discussed the difficulty of getting a FT position in arbitration with one of these firms. Can you (or anyone else) comment on how and when one seeks out a full-time position from his/her firm like this? Do you discuss at OCI, indicating that you want to be hired into a specific practice group? Or do you seek out a commitment from the firm at the time they ask you to return at the end of your 2L summer?

It is a bit tricky. On one hand, they will ask you about your interests and what practice areas you think you might enjoy, so it is easy to broach the topic of a specific practice groups during interviews. On the other hand, you do want an offer of some sort, so you don't want to seem too inflexible.

I guess it really depends on how committed to intl arb you are, and if you really think you need to be doing exclusively arb work. If you are more flexible, the above suggestion about firms like Clearly that have open work systems and lots of arb work to go around wouldn't be a bad idea. If you really just want to do intl arb work, it'll be much trickier and you'll basically need to do a lot of research about how that specific firm hires, their rotation system, the specific group's hiring, etc. For example, you might try reaching out to associates/recent grads at the firm/in the group who you feel comfortable asking (and feel would give honest response) about the chances of getting hired in the practice group. I also went into OCI with a specific practice in mind: after securing call-backs I started to do a lot more specific research through follow-ups, etc. For two firms, I ended up speaking a lot with a specific partner in the group I was interested in and it eventually became apparent that if I took the offer I could work very closely with him/her. It is really firm/practice/group/partner specific, so you'll really have to do some extra work. PM if you would like more details.

[brownpride]

Thanks a lot for the advice, all. Banker9, you discussed the difficulty of getting a FT position in arbitration with one of these firms. Can you (or anyone else) comment on how and when one seeks out a full-time position from his/her firm like this? Do you discuss at OCI, indicating that you want to be hired into a specific practice group? Or do you seek out a commitment from the firm at the time they ask you to return at the end of your 2L summer?

It is a bit tricky. On one hand, they will ask you about your interests and what practice areas you think you might enjoy, so it is easy to broach the topic of a specific practice groups during interviews. On the other hand, you do want an offer of some sort, so you don't want to seem too inflexible.

I guess it really depends on how committed to intl arb you are, and if you really think you need to be doing exclusively arb work. If you are more flexible, the above suggestion about firms like Clearly that have open work systems and lots of arb work to go around wouldn't be a bad idea. If you really just want to do intl arb work, it'll be much trickier and you'll basically need to do a lot of research about how that specific firm hires, their rotation system, the specific group's hiring, etc. For example, you might try reaching out to associates/recent grads at the firm/in the group who you feel comfortable asking (and feel would give honest response) about the chances of getting hired in the practice group. I also went into OCI with a specific practice in mind: after securing call-backs I started to do a lot more specific research through follow-ups, etc. For two firms, I ended up speaking a lot with a specific partner in the group I was interested in and it eventually became apparent that if I took the offer I could work very closely with him/her. It is really firm/practice/group/partner specific, so you'll really have to do some extra work. PM if you would like more details.

Thanks very much. This was very helpful.