Help Me Pick Between Firms Forum

[Anonymous User]

I have comparable, permanent offers between two firms at the moment. Would love to hear any and all input on which way to go on this. The firms are actually in different, major legal markets. I don't have strong ties to either, and would love to live in either market, so I'm trying to gauge this from a career standpoint. Long-term, I'd like to be a civil trial attorney. I'm not particularly inclined to either plaintiff or defense-side work, but would like to choose the option that has the best long-term career outlook for me. I know that neither of these options is significantly better than the other and this is a crystal-ball question that probably doesn't have a right answer, but would love to hear your thoughts.

Firm 1 - Midsize (~ 50-60 attorneys), national plaintiff's firm with 3 offices. Firm does toxic tort, products liability, qui tam but majority of the practice is asbestos lit. Not a practice area I want to be in long-term, but there is the opportunity for me to get good trial experience early on.

Firm 2 - Small (3 other attorneys) defense firm. Practice is primarily professional liability defense. Don't have much experience in this area to know if I would want to be in it long-term, but may be some good exit options to other defense firms that have professional liability practice groups. May have similar opportunity to get solid substantive/trial experience relatively early on solely because the firm is so small. Named partners are well-connected in the firm's market.

After factoring in COL differences, the pay differences between the opportunities are almost negligible. One worry/concern I do have is potentially getting pigeon-holed in a practice area or on either plaintiffs/defense side (although it's my understanding that eventual lateral movement is much more common from defense to plaintiff side than vice versa). Thanks for your input!

[bdubs]

Firm 2 sounds really niche and unlikely to generate a lot of substantive trial experience (how many professional responsibility cases actually go to trial? can't be that many). The major plus side is that you wouldn't generate many conflicts working primarily for individuals accused of professional misconduct.

Firm 1 will probably give you more experience, but very few asbestos cases go to trial/verdict anymore. The firm may have trial experience opportunities if they are trying to break into new areas, but I wouldn't count on necessarily getting a lot of hands on experience trying cases. The type of work, though, is likely to generate a lot of conflicts (as a plaintiffs lawyer you wind up naming everyone and the kitchen sink). So it might be harder to move around to another type of work if you don't like it.

[anonymous2012]

I don't think the person who responded understands what a conflict really is.

[CanadianWolf]

Seems like this should be an easy decision based on one's personal preferences. Do you want to work in a small firm environment in City X or for a medium sized firm in City Y ?

[anon168]

I have comparable, permanent offers between two firms at the moment. Would love to hear any and all input on which way to go on this. The firms are actually in different, major legal markets. I don't have strong ties to either, and would love to live in either market, so I'm trying to gauge this from a career standpoint. Long-term, I'd like to be a civil trial attorney. I'm not particularly inclined to either plaintiff or defense-side work, but would like to choose the option that has the best long-term career outlook for me. I know that neither of these options is significantly better than the other and this is a crystal-ball question that probably doesn't have a right answer, but would love to hear your thoughts.

Firm 1 - Midsize (~ 50-60 attorneys), national plaintiff's firm with 3 offices. Firm does toxic tort, products liability, qui tam but majority of the practice is asbestos lit. Not a practice area I want to be in long-term, but there is the opportunity for me to get good trial experience early on.

Firm 2 - Small (3 other attorneys) defense firm. Practice is primarily professional liability defense. Don't have much experience in this area to know if I would want to be in it long-term, but may be some good exit options to other defense firms that have professional liability practice groups. May have similar opportunity to get solid substantive/trial experience relatively early on solely because the firm is so small. Named partners are well-connected in the firm's market.

After factoring in COL differences, the pay differences between the opportunities are almost negligible. One worry/concern I do have is potentially getting pigeon-holed in a practice area or on either plaintiffs/defense side (although it's my understanding that eventual lateral movement is much more common from defense to plaintiff side than vice versa). Thanks for your input!

I don't really have advice for as to which firm to pick, but what makes you think you will get trial experience -- much less "good" trial experience -- at either places. Be it early on, middle, or later?

Do you know for fact how many jury trials each firm has taken to verdict in, say, the past 5 years?

I don't ask this to be snarky, but I hear about these firms in posts all the time I am always a bit shocked, and amused, that a recruit or a lateral candidate is sold and buys a line that "here, you will get trial experience. And good ones. And early, too!"

Unless you're at a local prosecutor's office (muni, city or county) churning DUIs or misdemeanors, or PD defending them, it's hard to imagine many young associates getting trial experience. And good ones. And all of that early on, no less.

[Anonymous User]

I don't really have advice for as to which firm to pick, but what makes you think you will get trial experience -- much less "good" trial experience -- at either places. Be it early on, middle, or later?

Do you know for fact how many jury trials each firm has taken to verdict in, say, the past 5 years?

I don't ask this to be snarky, but I hear about these firms in posts all the time I am always a bit shocked, and amused, that a recruit or a lateral candidate is sold and buys a line that "here, you will get trial experience. And good ones. And early, too!"

Unless you're at a local prosecutor's office (muni, city or county) churning DUIs or misdemeanors, or PD defending them, it's hard to imagine many young associates getting trial experience. And good ones. And all of that early on, no less.

OP here. I will get trial experience at the midsize firm because I actually work there now and we go to trial often. Don't know how much trial experience I'd get at the small firm. Honestly, part of the draw to the small firm is that it's in a market that I haven't lived in but would like to (although the market I'm in now is also a great place to live), and there's some appeal to me to the whole new city/new adventure/new start.

[CanadianWolf]

OP: Based on your last post, it seems as though you want a change.

[Anonymous User]

OP: Based on your last post, it seems as though you want a change.

That's part of it, but it's somewhat risky because I don't know if the change to the new market will for sure be something I will like. I like (but maybe not love) the market I'm in now and I THINK the small firm market would be a city I would really enjoy, but of course I can't say until I've actually lived there.

[CanadianWolf]

Willing to identify the cities ? Important because that seems to be your primary concern.

[Anonymous User]

Willing to identify the cities ? Important because that seems to be your primary concern.

Sure. The market I'm in now is LA, the small firm market is SF.

[CanadianWolf]

Few would worry about living in San Francisco. Seems like a dream job. Pretty sure that you just won the legal employment lottery. Congratulations !

[Anonymous User]

Thank you...I'm excited by the potential opportunity and I've heard SF is an incredible place to be. I'm just worried about the potential long-term career impact this move might have (and part of me is also scared to leave behind the life I've spent the last few years building in LA).

[oblitigate]

Out of curiosity is the pltf. firm Waters & Kraus?

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thanks for all your responses. One thing I'm concerned about is potential exit options. I would likely work at either firm for at least 1-2 years. It seems like Firm 1 exit options might be to go to another midsized/small plaintiff firm doing similar PI/products work. I'm unsure about Firm 2. I know a lot of midsized/larger defense firms have professional liability practices. Anyone have any thoughts on how difficult it might be to lateral to a larger firm from such a small shop?

[Anonymous User]

I have friends at asbestos firms. If you take it, I hope you like traveling and doing depositions where you address the same issues every time, because that could be 80% of your life for at least the first four years. The process is basically that all the plaintiffs attorneys try to identify ("tag") every possible product and manufacturer that the plaintiff was exposed to, then the 47 defense attorneys working for 42 different manufacturers try to show the product didn't exist at that time or the plaintiff didn't work with it. It's very repetitive and is just basically going down the same checklist every time.

That said, it's actually arguably a growing industry. I've heard that asbestos litigation volume isn't expected to peak for another decade or two.

[gulcregret]

Professional liability litigation is fascinating. SF is great. Small firm can be tough to get out of, but if your partners are connected, that's terrific. CA professional liability law is pretty cool and there is a lot of lit out there. If you are making a livable wage, it's a cool nice area and is in high demand, at least on the east coast (DC and DE).

[Anonymous User]

Out of curiosity is the pltf. firm Waters & Kraus?

this^^

fwiw op, I worked at W&K (sa) and found the work very very repetitive (asbestos litigation is basically focused on shipyards and, more recently, brake pad manufacturers)


Edit: I cannot speak to the exit opportunities, but I can say that the associates that had just started there did indeed get the opportunity to do depo's etc. And like someone else said, and is definitely true at W&K, you have to travel a lot.