second year patent litigation associate taking questions Forum

[patlitassociate]

shoot

me: t14 top 25% with tech background + band 1 chambers nationwide firm; not gonna disclose location or anything else related to my identity

i found tls incredibly useful throughout law school and i'd love to give back

[patogordo]

IP to 190?

[patlitassociate]

IP to 190?

No way. I definitely see that thappening at 3-4 boutiques which don't have that much overhead and who have to pay that premium to attract associates away from biglaw. I also see same # of contingency shop opportunities where you could easily clear 200K as a first-year. But, general market? No.

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on those without a tech background breaking into the market from a T14? Does work on an IP secondary journal/clinic help at all? Also, not sure if your particular firm has overseas offices, but do you have any idea on the successful way to seek a spot in a firm's IP practice in Asia? Fluent in the language (Chinese/Japanese) if that makes a difference. Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

What are your hours like? Are you very often working late and on weekends come crunch time for a case you're working on, or is that just a couple of times a year? And how long do those high intensity periods last?

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on those without a tech background breaking into the market from a T14? Does work on an IP secondary journal/clinic help at all? Also, not sure if your particular firm has overseas offices, but do you have any idea on the successful way to seek a spot in a firm's IP practice in Asia? Fluent in the language (Chinese/Japanese) if that makes a difference. Thanks!

I'm not the OP, but I'm also a second year patent lit associate. If you are fluent in Japanese, I know for a fact you could make 200k+ just doing patent-related doc review as a contract associate. (I have a friend who has no tech background doing this.) I imagine the demand for associate-level work would also be very high. I'm not sure about Chinese, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were somewhat useful as well.

[skri65]

Do you find that people to have to choose patent prosecution or patent litigation upon entering the firm (provided patent bar eligibility)? Have you heard of anyone lateraling from an in-house position to law firm work? Is it possible to work in patent prosecution for a certain number of years and then be hired as a patent litigator?

Thoughts on work/life balance?

[patogordo]

Thoughts on those without a tech background breaking into the market from a T14? Does work on an IP secondary journal/clinic help at all? Also, not sure if your particular firm has overseas offices, but do you have any idea on the successful way to seek a spot in a firm's IP practice in Asia? Fluent in the language (Chinese/Japanese) if that makes a difference. Thanks!

I'm not the OP, but I'm also a second year patent lit associate. If you are fluent in Japanese, I know for a fact you could make 200k+ just doing patent-related doc review as a contract associate. (I have a friend who has no tech background doing this.) I imagine the demand for associate-level work would also be very high. I'm not sure about Chinese, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were somewhat useful as well.

brb learning japanese

[Anonymous User]

1. I'm not sure if I want to do corporate or IP (patent litigation). I'm not sure what classes to take at this point. I'm taking corps, but also may want to take tax and other somewhat necessary classes (if I want to do corp). Will firms see that I'm BS-ing them if I tell them I want to do patent lit if I don't have any IP classes/background except a tech degree?
2. I'm a chem major (B.S.). The reason I do not want to go into patent lit is because I feel like there will be a glass ceiling. I know this has been asked before but I haven't found a straight answer. Considering I get a job in patent lit or even pros., would my career prospects (lateral, partner, going in-house, etc.) be much more limited than someone with a PhD or BS in EE?
3. What are the exit options for patent lit like?

[turbotong]

Can you tell us which third of the U.S. you're working in? East coast, west coast, or central? I don't think this will give you away, but it helps with questions about firm culture.

[patlitassociate]

west coast

[Anonymous User]

Thanks OP for taking questions.
1. I am a Physics undergraduate and a Physics master. Does this put me as IP background?
2. I heard rumors that PHD from a top program is required for chemistry major. Is it true? What about other majors?
3. Will T14 be a boost for the IP field, compare to other non-t14 schools ranked higher for IP(GW, for example)?

[Anonymous User]

what would you say is the main diff. between Pat Lit and Pat Pros in terms of lifestyle?

[Anonymous User]

What's most important in getting a patent lit associate position? Please do your best to rank the following:

Law school attended
Law school GPA
Law review/secondary journal/moot court
Technical background (i.e., PhD in biosciences vs bachelors)
Work experience (research during grad school/doctorate, or following graduation)
Others?

Thanks!

[Aureusmons]

Redacted from original

[run26.2]

I'm a 2L with a a patent boutique SA coming up. Any advice for how to make it a successful summer?

• Understand your assignment and do that, not something that is just close enough or an alternative because you didn't understand the assignment or because it was difficult.
• Do more than the minimum. Show you can think about the implications of your work and make intelligent suggestions where appropriate.
• Don't get a reputation for avoiding work.
• Go to the events, act normally, and be conversational. Don't force it, and don't be offensive.

Now that you're a second year, what kind of work are you actually doing day to day?

Depends on the firm, partner, and case. There is some overlap with things you do as a first year. For instance, you may still do doc review (even more senior attorneys may also be involved in this). The best answer is that day-to-day, you just have an increased level of responsibility on your cases.

This may translate into things like more opportunity to draft documents (pleadings, motions, discovery, etc., although many people will also do these as a first year), draft more important documents, or simply more responsibility in your drafting, e.g. you write a greater portion (or all) of a claim construction brief or expert report. You have increased interactions with clients, and are expected to bring something to the table on your client calls. You also will have more interaction with opposing counsel. Skills-wise, you may have the opportunity to defend (more like) or take a depo, although this can also come earlier or later than your second year.

Generally, you will be expected to understand the implications of different arguments on other aspects of your case. More senior attorneys will expect a higher level of work product, in terms of showing more sophisticated analysis, better knowledge of the law, and more effective advocacy.

[Anonymous User]

Are the exit options for patent litigation as poor as everyone says they are? I'm a 2L who will be working at an IP boutique this summer. I would rather do litigation than prosecution, but I'm getting nervous listening to everyone say that I'll never find a job once I leave my firm. Is getting experience with both litigation and prosecution totally out of the question?

[Anonymous User]

Are the exit options for patent litigation as poor as everyone says they are? I'm a 2L who will be working at an IP boutique this summer. I would rather do litigation than prosecution, but I'm getting nervous listening to everyone say that I'll never find a job once I leave my firm. Is getting experience with both litigation and prosecution totally out of the question?

2nd year patent litigator here. From what I've seen, exit options are much more plentiful for patent prosecutors. There are far fewer in house positions for patent litigators. Most patent litigators who leave biglaw either go to smaller firms or stop practicing altogether.

[run26.2]

What's most important in getting a patent lit associate position? Please do your best to rank the following:

Law school attended
Law school GPA
Law review/secondary journal/moot court
Technical background (i.e., PhD in biosciences vs bachelors)
Work experience (research during grad school/doctorate, or following graduation)
Others?

Thanks!

This question is difficult to answer because it will vary based on firm and/or market. For instance, ties are very important to many firms in some regions (e.g., Seattle). And certain firms probably aren't going to give you a look unless you're at a top school (e.g., Quinn), so there is a threshold question. And boutiques probably aren't going to look at you unless you have a technical background. If you're bio, a Ph.D. is close to being a requirement.

[Anonymous User]

Are the exit options for patent litigation as poor as everyone says they are? I'm a 2L who will be working at an IP boutique this summer. I would rather do litigation than prosecution, but I'm getting nervous listening to everyone say that I'll never find a job once I leave my firm. Is getting experience with both litigation and prosecution totally out of the question?

2nd year patent litigator here. From what I've seen, exit options are much more plentiful for patent prosecutors. There are far fewer in house positions for patent litigators. Most patent litigators who leave biglaw either go to smaller firms or stop practicing altogether.

Stop practicing altogether? As in.. leave law?

That's a pretty huge step. I can't imagine investing 3 years and 150K to stop practicing after a couple years

[run26.2]

When did he/she say a couple of years? If you stay in until your 5th year, you've likely made over $1M, counting bonuses, in your legal career. For some, that's a worthwhile investment.

[Anonymous User]

Oops, responded to the wrong post.

[Anonymous User]

Are the exit options for patent litigation as poor as everyone says they are? I'm a 2L who will be working at an IP boutique this summer. I would rather do litigation than prosecution, but I'm getting nervous listening to everyone say that I'll never find a job once I leave my firm. Is getting experience with both litigation and prosecution totally out of the question?

2nd year patent litigator here. From what I've seen, exit options are much more plentiful for patent prosecutors. There are far fewer in house positions for patent litigators. Most patent litigators who leave biglaw either go to smaller firms or stop practicing altogether.

Stop practicing altogether? As in.. leave law?

That's a pretty huge step. I can't imagine investing 3 years and 150K to stop practicing after a couple years

Original anon poster here.

Yep, leave the practice of law altogether. TBF, two of the people I know who did this were mothers who wanted to spend more time with their kids. One is now a pre-law adviser at her UG. The other is not working at all (I think?). I also know a couple of IP litigators who switched over to corporate late in their biglaw careers with the hope of getting in house jobs. One IP litigator I know works at a small firm doing non-IP related work now. In fact, I can't think of any IP litigators who have left biglaw and continued to practice IP litigation. I think there are IP lit boutiques that take biglaw refugees, I just don't know how big they are.