2L grades worse than 1L - likelihood of V10 non-offering me? Forum

[Anonymous User]

CCN 2L, top 25% grades (half B+, half A-) in 1L
Now getting medianish grades (straight B+ so far) in 2L, with one grade still outstanding.

Frankly, the grade I haven't received yet is my hardest class, and I don't know how I did relative to my peers. Worst case scenario: I get a B. Do you think my V10 will consider non-offering me due to deterioration in my grades? Is this a drop-off strong enough to use as pretext for non-offering if I do mediocre work?

Any other stories of offers getting rescinded for this reason appreciated.

[brotherdarkness]

.

[rad lulz]

m

[2014]

Since you are at a V10 you are safe, V11-V14 and it's more hairy.

(Don't worry)

[thesealocust]

As long as you're not at Gibson Dunn you should be fine.

[rad lulz]

m

[09042014]

As long as you're not at Gibson Dunn you should be fine.

Yeah if you're at GDC you're boned because your grades have to go UP

Come on, you are overstating it. Just because you get put into the less desirable litigation group, doesn't mean you are boned. The quality of assignment might be severely inferior, but the pay is the same.

[brotherdarkness]

.

[09042014]

As long as you're not at Gibson Dunn you should be fine.

Yeah if you're at GDC you're boned because your grades have to go UP

Come on, you are overstating it. Just because you get put into the less desirable litigation group, doesn't mean you are boned. The quality of assignment might be severely inferior, but the pay is the same.

Why would you go to GDC for anything but lit? That's their thing...

There are several groups, you get put in a "dud" group. A lot of doc review.

[daryldixon]

I just did the calculations. You have a 43.27% chance of being no offered if you get those same grades next semester.

Of course I couldn't account for wind speed and resistance but I think you get the idea.

[Anonymous User]

If one gets below median in a public speaking course, will the firm realize that I'm aware I'm a bad public speaker and took the class to be a less bad public speaker so I can be a better lawyer? Or is it just chalked into the same calculator?

[rpupkin]

If one gets below median in a public speaking course, will the firm realize that I'm aware I'm a bad public speaker and took the class to be a less bad public speaker so I can be a better lawyer? Or is it just chalked into the same calculator?

Most V20 firms put a lot of value on public speaking. If you're outside the V20, then you're probably okay. But if you're summering at a V20, then I'd start talking to 3Ls who just did 3L OCI. You're probably going to need their advice.

[VulcanVulcanVulcan]

As long as you're not at Gibson Dunn you should be fine.

I'll never get enough of this.

[Old Gregg]

Depends on your credit score.

[Anonymous User]

If one gets below median in a public speaking course, will the firm realize that I'm aware I'm a bad public speaker and took the class to be a less bad public speaker so I can be a better lawyer? Or is it just chalked into the same calculator?

Most V20 firms put a lot of value on public speaking. If you're outside the V20, then you're probably okay. But if you're summering at a V20, then I'd start talking to 3Ls who just did 3L OCI. You're probably going to need their advice.

I know you're likely kidding, but it's a serious topic. Hypothetically if one graduated jobless, that is statistically likely to be a completely different type of living style from getting the offer. You're talking private school vs. possibly not being able to afford to have children, a reliable car vs. the bus, full medical insurance vs. hoping not to get sick. It's not exactly like I only care so I have latin on a piece of paper. I'm the type that would hang my diploma upside down, but I am serious about being employed.

[Old Gregg]

If one gets below median in a public speaking course, will the firm realize that I'm aware I'm a bad public speaker and took the class to be a less bad public speaker so I can be a better lawyer? Or is it just chalked into the same calculator?

Most V20 firms put a lot of value on public speaking. If you're outside the V20, then you're probably okay. But if you're summering at a V20, then I'd start talking to 3Ls who just did 3L OCI. You're probably going to need their advice.

I know you're likely kidding, but it's a serious topic. Hypothetically if one graduated jobless, that is statistically likely to be a completely different type of living style from getting the offer. You're talking private school vs. possibly not being able to afford to have children, a reliable car vs. the bus, full medical insurance vs. hoping not to get sick. It's not exactly like I only care so I have latin on a piece of paper. I'm the type that would hang my diploma upside down, but I am serious about being employed.

If there was that much at stake (there isn't), you'd have spent all the time wasted worrying here and built some sense to realize how stupid your question was. This sense will prove far more useful in life.

[Anonymous User]

OP: I sympathize with how stressful this situation is and how, despite general TLS assurances to the contrary, the prospect of a no-offer because of a grade drop eats at your confidence.

A couple years ago I summered at one of the firms that is notorious for handing out no-offers like candy (we ended up with an ~80% offer rate my summer) and that has a reputation on TLS for being incredibly grade snobby. My grades, which were near perfect 1L year, plummeted 2L year and I ended up around median by the end of it (they stayed there for 3L year too). I received an offer. The drop certainly put me on edge, and it gave the firm enough rope to justify cutting me for any work product failure, so in response I made damn sure that I didn't have any work product failures. My grades never came up in my exit interview and when I received my offer I had one of the more influential/senior partners call and invite me to work in his practice group when I return to the firm (which I chose not to do for a variety of reasons). I know that at least one of the no-offered kids graduated with stellar grades and landed an amazing COA clerkship after graduation, but had summer work product issues, which leads me to believe that work product >>> grades in the offer evaluation. If you're at a firm with a ~100% offer rate then you're golden barring a serious work-related screwup.

tl;dr: Grades alone are very unlikely to result in a no-offer. Don't treat summer as a joke, do good work, impress the partners, and you'll be fine.

[rad lulz]

OP: I sympathize with how stressful this situation is and how, despite general TLS assurances to the contrary, the prospect of a no-offer because of a grade drop eats at your confidence.

A couple years ago I summered at one of the firms that is notorious for handing out no-offers like candy (we ended up with an ~80% offer rate my summer) and that has a reputation on TLS for being incredibly grade snobby. My grades, which were near perfect 1L year, plummeted 2L year and I ended up around median by the end of it (they stayed there for 3L year too). I received an offer. The drop certainly put me on edge, and it gave the firm enough rope to justify cutting me for any work product failure, so in response I made damn sure that I didn't have any work product failures. My grades never came up in my exit interview and when I received my offer I had one of the more influential/senior partners call and invite me to work in his practice group when I return to the firm (which I chose not to do for a variety of reasons). I know that at least one of the no-offered kids graduated with stellar grades and landed an amazing COA clerkship after graduation, but had summer work product issues, which leads me to believe that work product >>> grades in the offer evaluation. If you're at a firm with a ~100% offer rate then you're golden barring a serious work-related screwup.

tl;dr: Grades alone are very unlikely to result in a no-offer. Don't treat summer as a joke, do good work, impress the partners, and you'll be fine.

A firm that hires more people than it has spots for every year?

Sounds awesome

[Anonymous User]

If one gets below median in a public speaking course, will the firm realize that I'm aware I'm a bad public speaker and took the class to be a less bad public speaker so I can be a better lawyer? Or is it just chalked into the same calculator?

Most V20 firms put a lot of value on public speaking. If you're outside the V20, then you're probably okay. But if you're summering at a V20, then I'd start talking to 3Ls who just did 3L OCI. You're probably going to need their advice.

I know you're likely kidding, but it's a serious topic. Hypothetically if one graduated jobless, that is statistically likely to be a completely different type of living style from getting the offer. You're talking private school vs. possibly not being able to afford to have children, a reliable car vs. the bus, full medical insurance vs. hoping not to get sick. It's not exactly like I only care so I have latin on a piece of paper. I'm the type that would hang my diploma upside down, but I am serious about being employed.

If there was that much at stake (there isn't), you'd have spent all the time wasted worrying here and built some sense to realize how stupid your question was. This sense will prove far more useful in life.

Well, it's not like I slacked off. I'm bad at public speaking so I took classes to get less bad at public speaking. The exams were fine; this was not.

[p1arnold]

There are several groups, you get put in a "dud" group. A lot of doc review.

Could get thrown into the endless "transnational" group, which involves years of doc review for oil companies trying to stop villagers!

[OneMoreLawHopeful]

As long as you're not at Gibson Dunn you should be fine.

Yeah if you're at GDC you're boned because your grades have to go UP

Why do you guys post this shit?

This is easily the 4th of so thread from this year that you've clogged with this kind of trolling. The issue is that it just feeds the problem: we get more of these threads because you guys have created doubt in 2Ls by posting this stuff, rendering the search function near useless for 2Ls because all it turns up is more of your trolling.

If you want these threads to go away, just give an honest answer in the first place.

[Old Gregg]

As long as you're not at Gibson Dunn you should be fine.

Yeah if you're at GDC you're boned because your grades have to go UP

Come on, you are overstating it. Just because you get put into the less desirable litigation group, doesn't mean you are boned. The quality of assignment might be severely inferior, but the pay is the same.

Depends. I know an associate who was told to his face that because he got one A-, they were gonna shove him in real estate. Now he reviews leases instead of drafting SCOTUS briefs.

[philosoraptor]

As long as you're not at Gibson Dunn you should be fine.

Yeah if you're at GDC you're boned because your grades have to go UP

Why do you guys post this shit?

This is easily the 4th of so thread from this year that you've clogged with this kind of trolling. The issue is that it just feeds the problem: we get more of these threads because you guys have created doubt in 2Ls by posting this stuff, rendering the search function near useless for 2Ls because all it turns up is more of your trolling.

If you want these threads to go away, just give an honest answer in the first place.

Oh calm down. Rad and TSL are the two most helpful posters on the entire forum. These threads are stupid, deserve to be mocked, and will never go away no matter what because law students are neurotic and paranoid.

[2014]

As long as you're not at Gibson Dunn you should be fine.

Yeah if you're at GDC you're boned because your grades have to go UP

Why do you guys post this shit?

This is easily the 4th of so thread from this year that you've clogged with this kind of trolling. The issue is that it just feeds the problem: we get more of these threads because you guys have created doubt in 2Ls by posting this stuff, rendering the search function near useless for 2Ls because all it turns up is more of your trolling.

If you want these threads to go away, just give an honest answer in the first place.

(Summer 2014 GDC SA)

[crit_racer]

You're fine I promise. Now chill