Life without windows: are there firms with interior offices? Forum

[Anonymous User]

WELL, all firms *have* interior offices for at least some staff, but I am interested in biglaw firms that force associates to toil mindlessly without BASIC ACCESS TO WINDOWS!

Yes, I am very aware that there are many law students who just want a job and would gladly take any job, even if it was in a dungeon in Queens or, worse, New Jersey. However, I am slightly upset that my NYC biglaw firm has pulled a once-over on their incoming class: when they were summers in 2012, the firm had a policy of office-sharing for first and second years (with all offices, obviously, being exterior - i.e. with a nice big window).

I was a summer at the firm in 2012 as a 1L and I spent two weeks there in 2013 as a 2L. It was in 2013 that I learned the firm had been busy while these poor 2012 summers were drinking away their 3L year...the first and second years will be DOOMED to sit in interior offices (without windows) for TWO WHOLE YEARS. I am very upset by this and it was one of the absolute deciding factors in my acceptance of my (other) 2013 summer offer. I realize how pretentious this issue is and I really, really do apologize for complaining (yet, I am doing it anyways). I acknowledge the privilege of having a job with a nice income (or, really, any job) and how that privilege applies to both myself and the 2012 summers/2013 incoming class.

Nonetheless, I can't help but feel upset that a firm is (1) doing this in the first place and (2) really blindsiding these incoming associates. Are there other firms that do this in NYC? This CANNOT be a standard practice, but how widespread in NYC is it?

If there is sufficient interest, I will provide the name of the firm (hint: it's a MC firm). I am only posting this because I do not intend to return to this firm, yet I am still a bit reticent about "outing" them publicly.

[reasonable_man]

WELL, all firms *have* interior offices for at least some staff, but I am interested in biglaw firms that force associates to toil mindlessly without BASIC ACCESS TO WINDOWS!

Yes, I am very aware that there are many law students who just want a job and would gladly take any job, even if it was in a dungeon in Queens or, worse, New Jersey. However, I am slightly upset that my NYC biglaw firm has pulled a once-over on their incoming class: when they were summers in 2012, the firm had a policy of office-sharing for first and second years (with all offices, obviously, being exterior - i.e. with a nice big window).

I was a summer at the firm in 2012 as a 1L and I spent two weeks there in 2013 as a 2L. It was in 2013 that I learned the firm had been busy while these poor 2012 summers were drinking away their 3L year...the first and second years will be DOOMED to sit in interior offices (without windows) for TWO WHOLE YEARS. I am very upset by this and it was one of the absolute deciding factors in my acceptance of my (other) 2013 summer offer. I realize how pretentious this issue is and I really, really do apologize for complaining (yet, I am doing it anyways). I acknowledge the privilege of having a job with a nice income (or, really, any job) and how that privilege applies to both myself and the 2012 summers/2013 incoming class.

Nonetheless, I can't help but feel upset that a firm is (1) doing this in the first place and (2) really blindsiding these incoming associates. Are there other firms that do this in NYC? This CANNOT be a standard practice, but how widespread in NYC is it?

If there is sufficient interest, I will provide the name of the firm (hint: it's a MC firm). I am only posting this because I do not intend to return to this firm, yet I am still a bit reticent about "outing" them publicly.

Wow.

[bk1]

Not even a window into the hallway?

[Anonymous User]

Not even a window into the hallway?

OP here. No, straight up four walls and a door. Most are shared, based on rough calculations regarding the volume of the incoming class and the second years. Some summers (2013) had their own interior offices and did not have to share, however. I guess that's because the firm isn't fully moved-in to those offices. Note: the interior offices were not constructed when the 2013 summers went through OCI.

[AntipodeanPhil]

Sounds like a classic bait-and-switch to me. Worse still, they're trying to treat you like support staff. Everyone knows that only support staff have windowless offices. It's like they're refusing to acknowledge your superior status as a soon-to-be JD. I think this is the start of a slippery slope -- soon you'll be getting partners coffee and typing their dictation.

Out this firm publicly. It's the least that they deserve.

[Anonymous User]

Its hardly a bait and switch; I summered at the same firm and all first years warned us about not having windows and the sharing. Which we had to do as summers, so I'm not sure why OP thought that was going to change.

[Tom Joad]

You people seriously care about this? I thought this was a flame.

Windows are just distractions and cause glares. If I built a house, it would have no windows.

[thelawyler]

Out this firm.

[Mroberts3]

This is THE dumbest post I have seen on TLS in a long time (and that is really saying something).

A small part of me hopes this is an elaborate flame, but I'm betting its not.

[Anonymous User]

Its hardly a bait and switch; I summered at the same firm and all first years warned us about not having windows and the sharing. Which we had to do as summers, so I'm not sure why OP thought that was going to change.

Were you a 2012 summer? Obviously the 2013 summers were aware (lived it), but I am 100% sure that all the 2012 summers were not aware. I certainly was not. Also, even if 100% of the summer class of 2012 still had warning as summers, it's still a bait and switch. There was no warning when you guys were interviewing and the 3L job market isn't exactly easy. You might have drank the kool-aid, as it seems from your post, but I'm guessing at least some of the rest of your incoming associates are not thrilled.

Edit: didn't think the sharing was going to change (also, par for the course in NYC and actually something I liked - was great to have someone else in the office, I suppose as long as the officemates got along). what I didn't think was going to change was the PRESENCE OF A SOURCE OF NATURAL LIGHT.

[5ky]

This is the kind of post that winds up on ATL or Gawker. If somebody sent this to Hamilton Noah he would LEAP at the opportunity to whine about it. WHITE SHOE WALL STREET LAW FIRM GOLDMAN SACHS SOAK THE RICH

[Anonymous User]

Its hardly a bait and switch; I summered at the same firm and all first years warned us about not having windows and the sharing. Which we had to do as summers, so I'm not sure why OP thought that was going to change.

Were you a 2012 summer? Obviously the 2013 summers were aware (lived it), but I am 100% sure that all the 2012 summers were not aware. I certainly was not. Also, even if 100% of the summer class of 2012 still had warning as summers, that's still a bait and switch. There was no warning when you guys were interviewing and the 3L job market isn't exactly easy. You might have drank the kool-aid, as it seems from your post, but I'm guessing at least some of the rest of your incoming associates are not thrilled.

Edit: didn't think the sharing was going to change (also, par for the course in NYC and actually something I liked - was great to have someone else in the office, I suppose as long as the officemates got along). what I didn't think was going to change was the PRESENCE OF A SOURCE OF NATURAL LIGHT.

Your presumptiveness is only rivaled by the tediousness of your post. I did not "drink the Kool-aid" and should not be considered "you guys." As it turns out, I opted not to return to the firm for unrelated reasons. Also, to answer your question, I did not summer in 2012, which was apparently to my benefit. Further, there was nothing else in my post to indicate any support whatsoever for the firm.

If you want natural light, scurry on over to the starbucks with billable material in hand and bask in it. This post is tedious, annoying, and makes you sound like a petulant child. You have a job, so settle down and stop this nonsense. For the record, the other associates and I took shots and toasted to the tune of "we are employed" instead of whining about how Mr. Sun eluded us.

[Anonymous User]

Its hardly a bait and switch; I summered at the same firm and all first years warned us about not having windows and the sharing. Which we had to do as summers, so I'm not sure why OP thought that was going to change.

Were you a 2012 summer? Obviously the 2013 summers were aware (lived it), but I am 100% sure that all the 2012 summers were not aware. I certainly was not. Also, even if 100% of the summer class of 2012 still had warning as summers, that's still a bait and switch. There was no warning when you guys were interviewing and the 3L job market isn't exactly easy. You might have drank the kool-aid, as it seems from your post, but I'm guessing at least some of the rest of your incoming associates are not thrilled.

Edit: didn't think the sharing was going to change (also, par for the course in NYC and actually something I liked - was great to have someone else in the office, I suppose as long as the officemates got along). what I didn't think was going to change was the PRESENCE OF A SOURCE OF NATURAL LIGHT.

Your presumptiveness is only rivaled by the tediousness of your post. I did not "drink the Kool-aid." As it turns out, I opted not to return to the firm for unrelated reasons. Further, there was nothing else in my post to indicate any support whatsoever for the firm. If you want natural light, scurry on over to the starbucks with billable material in hand and bask in it.

But this post is tedious, annoying, and makes you sound like a petulant child. You have a job. Settle down.

LOL @ working from Starbucks.

[Anonymous User]

Its hardly a bait and switch; I summered at the same firm and all first years warned us about not having windows and the sharing. Which we had to do as summers, so I'm not sure why OP thought that was going to change.

Were you a 2012 summer? Obviously the 2013 summers were aware (lived it), but I am 100% sure that all the 2012 summers were not aware. I certainly was not. Also, even if 100% of the summer class of 2012 still had warning as summers, that's still a bait and switch. There was no warning when you guys were interviewing and the 3L job market isn't exactly easy. You might have drank the kool-aid, as it seems from your post, but I'm guessing at least some of the rest of your incoming associates are not thrilled.

Edit: didn't think the sharing was going to change (also, par for the course in NYC and actually something I liked - was great to have someone else in the office, I suppose as long as the officemates got along). what I didn't think was going to change was the PRESENCE OF A SOURCE OF NATURAL LIGHT.

Your presumptiveness is only rivaled by the tediousness of your post. I did not "drink the Kool-aid." As it turns out, I opted not to return to the firm for unrelated reasons. Further, there was nothing else in my post to indicate any support whatsoever for the firm. If you want natural light, scurry on over to the starbucks with billable material in hand and bask in it.

But this post is tedious, annoying, and makes you sound like a petulant child. You have a job. Settle down.

LOL @ working from Starbucks.

To be fair, I meant he/she should just stroll to the one across the way to get both his sun and caffeine fix, but that billable time shouldn't be wasted in the process.

[Anonymous User]

I am a jerbless 3l, so I would gladly work in a dungeon. There are people however who get really depressed at the lack of natural light, so it is not something to be ignored completely. I also think it is something they cannot fully control, its not like oh I am used to huge windows, how dare you put me here? I am one of those people... and if I had options, I would probably choose a "lesser" firm over a higher one just for that benefit.

[A. Nony Mouse]

As someone who just finished working 2 years of jobs in offices without windows, for about 1/3 the pay of a NYC biglaw associate, I completely understand the desire for a window (DEAR GOD LET MY NEW OFFICE HAVE A WINDOW), and even choosing one firm over another because one firm will guarantee a window. But high dudgeon? "Blindsiding"? Outing a firm for doing this? No one is guaranteed any particular kind of office.

[swimmer11]

Wait, wtf, this is serious? Who gives a shit

[09042014]

Wait, wtf, this is serious? Who gives a shit

This guy is clearly over reacting. But it's TTT as fuck to work in an office without windows. But I'd rather have a solo office with no windows, than share an office with windows.

Big law everywhere other than NYC gives you a windowed office.

[lolwat]

Agreed with A. Nony Mouse & Desert Fox above (especially re: overreacting, if the OP isn't just trolling us). I've worked for the past 1.5 years in solo offices with huge windows and I really liked it.

It's at the bottom of the list of things I'm worried about (because, well, for example, employment in a dungeon > unemployment sitting at home with windows), but damn, if I'm ever in a position of choosing between two (or more) firms, ever, little things like this (along with other stupid shit like free coffee/drinks without having to walk to Starbucks) will probably actually make a difference.

[dixiecupdrinking]

It's definitely kind of annoying, but I'd make sure you aren't giving off this kind of entitled vibe IRL.

[lukertin]

It's definitely kind of annoying, but I'd make sure you aren't giving off this kind of entitled vibe IRL.

I disagree. How else will people know always to let him have the window seat?

[Anastasia Dee Dualla]

It's definitely kind of annoying, but I'd make sure you aren't giving off this kind of entitled vibe IRL.

This.

[IAFG]

Delightful.

[Anonymous User]

At my firm, all first year's were lucky enough to have their own offices. In addition, they were the most recently-renovated and spacious offices, but they were all interiors. The building we are in is pretty old, and has a lot of windowless offices. Sure, I could be the glass-half-empty type and whine that the summers don't have windows, but I prefer to focus on the fact that I have a super spacious and modern office all to myself.

OP, grow up and drop the entitlement complex.

[francesfarmer]

Get a happy lamp, dude. At this very moment I am basking in the glow of my Verilux in my windowless office (not at a law firm).