Quinn v. Boies v. Kasowitz v. smaller lit boutique Forum

[Anonymous User]

Obviously I'm interested in lit, want actual trial experience. Thoughts?

[nonprofit-prophet]

Obviously I'm interested in lit, want actual trial experience. Thoughts?

Which smaller boutiques are on the table? you should look into Gibbs & Bruns and Yetter Coleman. Both offer a ton of trial experience and are better firms than Kasowitz.

[Old Gregg]

Obviously I'm interested in lit, want actual trial experience. Thoughts?

Which smaller boutiques are on the table? you should look into Gibbs & Bruns and Yetter Coleman. Both offer a ton of trial experience and are better firms than Kasowitz.

Bro probably wants to live in NYC, just judging his options.

[Anonymous User]

OP here - targeting NY and SF, Boies is in SF but Quinn offer is in NY. Should have said that before. Lit boutique is Keker Van Nest (SF)

[Anonymous User]

Keker is supposed to be great. You should probably plan on clerking if you go that route though.

[nonprofit-prophet]

Yea Keker has a great rep. Go with them.

[lolwat]

Keker 100% if I had these choices. Boies would be a consideration. But not Quinn or Kasowitz.

[alexb240]

If you want to talk about market perception, Boies is considered a cut above the rest of these firms. Quinn would be next in line, followed by Keker and then Kasowitz.

[Old Gregg]

Absolutely go to Keker. Associates at any of the above firms would kill to go there, even with the outsized bonuses at Boies.

[quesniot]

Boies--can't beat the experience and money you'll get at that firm.

[Elston Gunn]

If you want to talk about market perception, Boies is considered a cut above the rest of these firms. Quinn would be next in line, followed by Keker and then Kasowitz.

Wut.

[alexb240]

If you want to talk about market perception, Boies is considered a cut above the rest of these firms. Quinn would be next in line, followed by Keker and then Kasowitz.

Wut.

Truth. QE is repping the Federal Housing Fin. Authority in 16 simultaneous actions against the biggest banks in the world, on top of all the other things they're working on. They are on the front page of law360 almost every day. Keker is a nice firm, and people seem to like it... But if you're going simply on what the market's view of these firms is; it's no contest. Everyone has heard of Boies and Quinn. A substantial percentage of Biglaw people wouldn't know Keker. Again, not a judgment on the quality of the firm or whether it's a nice place to work. My only point is about market perception.

[Anonymous User]

Congrats on the great options OP.

You are talking about Boies Oakland right? Having interviewed there, I would say Keker unless you are absolutely dead set on antitrust, and probably Keker anyways. Keker's low leverage, partnership prospects, and reputation in SF make it very, very hard to beat in SF for litigators. Boies is a great alternative option but does not really pale.

Quinn's culture probably should make this a non-starter unless you really liked it there. Plus if you are in it for the short bucks, you should go for Boies. But in light of the very real possibility of making partner at Keker, it is short sighted to go for Boies on that ground. Plus who really knows what will happen when Boies dies.

Also LJL at the thought that Biglaw attorneys in SF do not know who Keker is. That poster clearly does not know the SF market.

[alexb240]

Of course attorneys in SF know Keker. The same way that attorneys in local markets always know prestigious boutiques in their areas. Poll attorneys in NYC, or DC, or Chicago, about Keker vs. Boies or QE. It's absolutely no contest. None. It's not even really debatable in a serious fashion. That's my only point. If OP is certain that they'll stay in SF forever and ever, then more power to them. But if you're asking about the market in a more general fashion (would be awfully myopic to think of "market perception" as only related to one city, when three of the four firms listed are national), which is what I was referring to (hence QE's involvement in major national litigation), then broader market perception is a consideration.

[Tanicius]

If you want to talk about market perception, Boies is considered a cut above the rest of these firms. Quinn would be next in line, followed by Keker and then Kasowitz.

Wut.

Truth. QE is repping the Federal Housing Fin. Authority in 16 simultaneous actions against the biggest banks in the world, on top of all the other things they're working on. They are on the front page of law360 almost every day. Keker is a nice firm, and people seem to like it... But if you're going simply on what the market's view of these firms is; it's no contest. Everyone has heard of Boies and Quinn. A substantial percentage of Biglaw people wouldn't know Keker. Again, not a judgment on the quality of the firm or whether it's a nice place to work. My only point is about market perception.

Those are fantastic reasons to be a partner, not an associate.

[Old Gregg]

Those are fantastic reasons to be a partner, not an associate.

Say that again when you're looking for another job.

[Anonymous User]

Of course attorneys in SF know Keker. The same way that attorneys in local markets always know prestigious boutiques in their areas. Poll attorneys in NYC, or DC, or Chicago, about Keker vs. Boies or QE. It's absolutely no contest. None. It's not even really debatable in a serious fashion. That's my only point. If OP is certain that they'll stay in SF forever and ever, then more power to them. But if you're asking about the market in a more general fashion (would be awfully myopic to think of "market perception" as only related to one city, when three of the four firms listed are national), which is what I was referring to (hence QE's involvement in major national litigation), then broader market perception is a consideration.

This post really confuses me. The OP needs to pick a market. From the limited information given, he/she seems indifferent between SF and NYC. Obviously if OP wants to ultimately practice NYC, Keker is not as good as some NYC firm.

With that said, if the OP chooses to work in SF, it does not matter at all what some random Biglaw attorney in NYC or DC or Chicago thinks. What the fuck is "market perception"? Vault ranking? Also where did OP say anything about national litigation? And wtf does that even mean?

OP, as someone who is at a Biglaw firm in California, and chose among these and other peer firms, I think the choice as I said above is clear. If you want to practice in California, choose Keker unless you had very strong fit at your other choices.

[Tanicius]

Those are fantastic reasons to be a partner, not an associate.

Say that again when you're looking for another job.

Yeah man. Those Keker associates are fucked (LinkRemoved).

It is seriously ridiculous to put Quinn ahead of Keker. Keker is pretty much in a league of its own when it comes to California litigation offices. And the best part: You won't have to commit billable hours suicide to work there!

[Old Gregg]

Yeah man. Those Keker associates are fucked.

...never said that they were.

Alexb240, I think you've arrived at a time when the decreasing quality in the law school application pool is beginning to make its effects felt on this forum.

[Tanicius]

Yeah man. Those Keker associates are fucked.

...never said that they were.

No, but you argued Quinn associates have better lateral opportunities than Keker associates. The day that news headlines make that a fact, the whole biglaw model will be shaken upside down.

[Old Gregg]

No, but you argued Quinn associates have better lateral opportunities than Keker associates.

Nope, didn't argue that either.

[Anonymous User]

OP, once you have offers in hand, ask to talk to some associates. Ask them what they've been up to in the past month. That should help clear things up a little.

I will say that the lawyers I've talked to who are at Keker-esque firms seem a lot happier than folks at bigger shops. But that could just be that the boutiques are good at hiring people who genuinely like the work and fit with the culture or any number of other things. And personally I'd go with Keker in a heartbeat if you want to be a trial lawyer as opposed to a litigator. But I also don't have any more info than you do.

If these are offers in hand, congrats. If not, good luck with your callbacks!

[Anonymous User]

OP: I hate you. jk.

You're in an amazing situation. I would reach out to jr. associates and ask for the low-down on their experience. If you are comfortable enough with them, I would even ask them to assess your options and what they would do if they were in your shoes.

Best of luck choosing from the best!

[Anonymous User]

Thanks everyone for the advice,

I am wavering a bit on whether or not I really want to be in SF but it seems like QoL is overwhelmingly more positive at Keker than anywhere else. Do people think I'm really shooting myself in the foot for a lateral move from SF back to NY in about 5 years if I go the Keker route?

[JusticeJackson]

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