How long to jump to new job? Forum

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:29 pm

I need some advice. I hate my job (an area of law that is commonly thought to constitute "shitlaw"). The pay is decent for the market I am in, but I cannot stand the work. I am still gaining some good skills, but after about a year or slightly more I will top out and stop gaining anything that is valuable. In the long term, the potential for good money is not high. With that said, how long do I have to stick with the job? I recently applied to a federal clerkship for the 2014-15 term. If I were to get the position it would allow me to work at my current position for about one year. I am comfortable only working at the firm for one year and then bailing. However, is it okay to continue to look for jobs that are a better fit for me and switch jobs after only 1-3 months of working at the current firm?

I ideally want to do commercial, business and real estate litigaiton. I have a fair amount of solid experience in this area. I have focused my course work on litigation, commercial law and business law. I have no experience in the position I currently hold. I don't want to pigeon hole myself into the type of law I am currently in.

Will it look bad in my home market (same market I am currently in) if I bail on the firm after having worked there for less than a year? Is it worth the risk of a bad reputation to potentially get out of "shitlaw?" Should I just shut up and be happy that I have a a decent paying job? Will a year or less in "shitlaw" prohibit me from breaking out of shitlaw?

Overall, any thoughts would be much appreciated. I am sorry that I am being sort of vague, but I want to make sure I don't out myself.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:09 am

MoonDreamer · Post by **MoonDreamer** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:05 pm

What do you mean by "shitlaw?" Practice details?

JusticeJackson · Post by **JusticeJackson** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:03 pm

MoonDreamer · Post by **MoonDreamer** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 2:28 pm

JusticeJackson wrote:
MoonDreamer wrote:What do you mean by "shitlaw?" Practice details?
Usually refers to high volume work like insurance defense, chapter 7 and 13 debtor side bankruptcy, construction defect, personal injury (sometimes). Typically there's a disproportional amount of work when compared to your pay check, or just a very low pay check.

What's "high volume"...how many cases would that be at any given time? I'm baffled by the negative perception of insurance defense since insurance covers a lot of different types of cases. That's besides the point here though. I'm more concerned with what OP thinks "shitlaw" is.

JusticeJackson · Post by **JusticeJackson** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:12 pm

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:58 pm

Op here. I should specify, I personally think that calling it a shitlaw is drastic, but that's what everyone else calls it. Not only is the volume unpleasant but the area of law is generally unpleasant, for me at least.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 12:59 am

Anyone? Essentially what I'm asking is whether it is shady for me to continue to look for jobs and possibly start a new job with less than a year of employment at the current firm? Any opinions? Stick it out for at least a year? Take a better opportunity if one were to present itself?

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:11 am

If you dislike the area of law, I would start looking for another job. If you get a good offer, you take it. It's that simple.

The only hard sell might be to your new employer. They will want to know why you are leaving so soon. Make sure you have a good answer. The new employer may be concerned that you are a job hopper, but a concise, reasoned explanation should alleviate those concerns. You will also need to have a good explanation as to why you want to work at the new firm to further alleviate their concerns.

shock259 · Post by **shock259** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:53 am

You are anon. Just tell us what kind of law you are doing. It is relevant.

MoonDreamer · Post by **MoonDreamer** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:52 am

shock259 wrote:You are anon. Just tell us what kind of law you are doing. It is relevant.

+1 because if you're doing workers' comp law at a solo (which would be confusing since you're applying to fed clerkships), you may not really have the same kind of chance at other firms and practice areas.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 7:36 pm

I'm working for an ID firm. Pretty much only place hiring at the moment in my home market. I couldn't pass it up.

JusticeJackson · Post by **JusticeJackson** » Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:40 pm

MoonDreamer · Post by **MoonDreamer** » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:32 am

JusticeJackson wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm working for an ID firm. Pretty much only place hiring at the moment in my home market. I couldn't pass it up.
Insurance defense isn't ideal, but I know a lot of people that looked at it as a place to learn the ropes and turn it into something better. The up side is that you will be in the courtroom 100 times more than me and the rest of the biglaw juniors in your first few years there. One of the best trial attorneys in my city started in insurance defense, and after learning the craft for low wages, he's a high paid biglaw partner. You will also know the dynamics of an insurance case inside and out if you ever want to do personal injury, and the more respected personal injury firms look for that.

In honesty, I wouldn't trade places with you, but if you play your cards right you easily could be making a lot more than me in ten years.

I dont know what "insurance defense" is referring to exactly but I work at a firm representing insureds. I've never been to a courtroom and my practice doesn't differ from non-insurance company backed cases. I dont understand this insurance defense v. non-insurance defense difference.

JusticeJackson · Post by **JusticeJackson** » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:46 am

MoonDreamer · Post by **MoonDreamer** » Fri Aug 02, 2013 2:15 am

JusticeJackson wrote:
MoonDreamer wrote:
JusticeJackson wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm working for an ID firm. Pretty much only place hiring at the moment in my home market. I couldn't pass it up.
Insurance defense isn't ideal, but I know a lot of people that looked at it as a place to learn the ropes and turn it into something better. The up side is that you will be in the courtroom 100 times more than me and the rest of the biglaw juniors in your first few years there. One of the best trial attorneys in my city started in insurance defense, and after learning the craft for low wages, he's a high paid biglaw partner. You will also know the dynamics of an insurance case inside and out if you ever want to do personal injury, and the more respected personal injury firms look for that.

In honesty, I wouldn't trade places with you, but if you play your cards right you easily could be making a lot more than me in ten years.
I dont know what "insurance defense" is referring to exactly but I work at a firm representing insureds. I've never been to a courtroom and my practice doesn't differ from non-insurance company backed cases. I dont understand this insurance defense v. non-insurance defense difference.
Do you defend insurance companies for car wrecks, constructions defects, other stuff like that?

I'm sure that the securities attorneys for AIG are biglaw, but the guy who defends state farm insurance claims based on car wrecks are ID.

What about employment law (rarely go to trial, extensive motion practice/legal research/doc review/briefs/memos, litigation costs per case can be up to 150k, and hourly fee $200+).

JusticeJackson · Post by **JusticeJackson** » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:05 pm

A. Nony Mouse · Post by **A. Nony Mouse** » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:08 pm

I think if you are doing employment law, and it just happens to be for an insurance company, that's rather different from actually doing insurance defense (though I'll admit that I too get confused by the different kinds of insurance work out there).

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