Post-JD: MBA or LLM? Forum

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:41 pm

Recent CCN grad, hopelessly unemployed, studying for the July bar. I'm thinking about applying to another grad program for fall 2014 if I can't find a decent paying legal job... is getting an MBA a more reliable route to employment? It seems like every job posting I come across has an MBA requirement, while no one wants JDs for anything. I looked at a few LLM programs but I'm definitely not up for tax and it seems like LLMs in other fields aren't worth the time/money. Do JD/MBAs have improved employment prospects for corporate firm jobs or consulting type work than just regular JDs?

Also, if I get an MBA with a totally liberal arts background (arts undergrad + arts job + jd), will that still be a detriment to corporate hiring? I'm not worried about the gmat/mba curriculum because I'm good at math and finance, I just had no interest in pursuing them in undergrad.

I'd appreciate hearing opinions or anyone's experiences!

jc1988 · Post by **jc1988** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:53 pm

CCN and unemployed? OMG i hate this economy

User was outed for anon abuse.

bdubs · Post by **bdubs** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:27 pm

Unlikely to be able to get into a good MBA program as an unemployable law grad. You need to have quality WE for any decent MBA. Also, the law degree is not very valuable for most business jobs so you would be viewed more based on you MBA quals than as a "JD-MBA." Pretty sure firms won't give you a second bite at the apple because of the MBA either.

t-14orbust · Post by **t-14orbust** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:36 pm

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:10 pm

OP here - lots of people in my class are unemployed, I don't think I'm unique?
My school didn't rank us but based on my GPA I would guess above median.
I had a few years of WE before law school and great WE from my summers, but the legal jobs weren't paid.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:27 pm

Similar position to you as a T-10 grad - seriously thinking about taking the GMAT and applying to MBA programs, have some finance experience while in law school and regulatory experience at fed agencies, this whole looking for a job + bar study thing freaking sucks

BeautifulSW · Post by **BeautifulSW** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:32 pm

Has the OP considered pursuing a M. Acc.? Good at math and finance but not interested in tax...sounds like a possible fit and accountants are getting jobs even now.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:56 pm

I am a recent JD/MBA grad at CCN, and did some work in admissions as a student ambassador, so I have some idea of what business schools are looking for, beyond just being a student. I don't mean to be discouraging, but my advice would be to forget about further degrees and just try to get a job, whether legal (preferable) or non-legal (fine too) using what you have right now. I know that's easier said than done, but trust me that trying for more degrees is not the answer. My reasons:

(1) Business school costs lots of money, and there's very little financial aid. Even if you get the type of jobs you want, the idea of 5 years of grad school debt is ridiculous to me. There's virtually no job that makes that worth it.

(2) There are very few MBA programs truly worth going to (by that, I mean will tangibly improve your prospects over a CCN law degree). Maybe 10 or 12.

(3) For these 10 or 12 schools, work experience is extremely important for admissions (it's true that joint degree students get a break on this to a certain degree, you won't really be considered a "JD/MBA" for the admissions process since you're already out of school). Summer jobs do not count. They're looking for real work experience, usually in a business role, and regardless of whether it's in a business role, it should be impressive - not a run of the mill job.

(4) Unlike legal employers, business school employers very much care about what you did prior to school. For instance, virtually all of the people who get private equity jobs out of business school were in (you guessed it) private equity before business school. Want to work in tech? Best background is already having worked in tech (or VC, or consulting for tech companies). In my experience, JD/MBAs with work experience did much better recruiting than JD/MBAs without work experience. The two big exceptions are banking and consulting, but even then, they care about prior work experience, even if it doesn't have to be in their industry. It will be hard to spin law school and a gap year (they'll figure out you couldn't get a job) into a positive story.

I guess the short summary is I think you're going to have a hard time getting into worthwhile MBA programs, and even if you do, the gap year will hurt your employment prospects. Even if the gap year does not hurt, it's a breakeven proposition at best because of the massive investment required with only an incremental increase in salary prospects.

I know it sucks and is hard, but I would really just keep on trying to get a job using what you have now.

rad lulz · Post by **rad lulz** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 3:58 pm

t-14orbust wrote:If you don't mind me asking this, what was your rank at CCN?

Aren't you an 0L?

http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 3&t=189981

cinephile · Post by **cinephile** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:07 pm

Did you mention (and I just didn't see it) how much debt you have currently and how much more debt you'd have with another degree? If it were me, I think I'd be looking at getting any job at this point, even if it's not a professional one, rather than getting in deeper in debt. Can you go back to doing whatever you did before law school?

jc1988 · Post by **jc1988** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:09 pm

have you considered compliance related jobs in banks or other financial institutions? I think your background might be good for that.

User was outed for anon abuse.

soj · Post by **soj** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:50 pm

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc.

0Ls: you shouldn't be posting in the employment forum, anonymous or not.

09042014 · Post by **09042014** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 4:52 pm

Education has failed you, and your solution is doubling down? Work 100% towards getting a job.

Anonymous User · Post by **Anonymous User** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:14 pm

Thanks for the input guys.
While I'm good at math, idk if I'm THAT good... a masters in accounting sounds a little daunting!
I have almost $100k in loan debt, but it's all federal... so no income = no repayment. I'd probably take out the same amount again to get an MBA unless I could get a scholarship, but $200k in loans and $100k+ salary seems like a better bet for me than $100k in loans and working at Barnes and Noble. I know no job is guaranteed after a graduate program, but that's why I want to find one with good job prospects.
I also really like being in school, as opposed to on the endless job hunt. I've been applying for jobs for months; I must have sent over 400 applications last fall to firms and government positions, and have been applying to things throughout the year. In the past few weeks I've sent so many applications, but there are very few job postings for people in my position, and those outside of traditional lawyer work often call for skills I don't have (MBAs, engineering background, finance, etc.). I just don't know what to do.
As for my job before law school, it was creative arts-related, and I went to law school with the hope of moving into a management/legal aspect of that field. I could go back to my old job in some capacity, but to get into the managerial aspects, almost anywhere I could apply wants lawyers who have worked at a firm for several years, not new grad JDs. What seems attractive about an MBA is the ability to start working right out of business school.

rad lulz · Post by **rad lulz** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the input guys.
While I'm good at math, idk if I'm THAT good... a masters in accounting sounds a little daunting!
I have almost $100k in loan debt, but it's all federal... so no income = no repayment. I'd probably take out the same amount again to get an MBA unless I could get a scholarship, but $200k in loans and $100k+ salary seems like a better bet for me than $100k in loans and working at Barnes and Noble. I know no job is guaranteed after a graduate program, but that's why I want to find one with good job prospects.
I also really like being in school, as opposed to on the endless job hunt. I've been applying for jobs for months; I must have sent over 400 applications last fall to firms and government positions, and have been applying to things throughout the year. In the past few weeks I've sent so many applications, but there are very few job postings for people in my position, and those outside of traditional lawyer work often call for skills I don't have (MBAs, engineering background, finance, etc.). I just don't know what to do.
As for my job before law school, it was creative arts-related, and I went to law school with the hope of moving into a management/legal aspect of that field. I could go back to my old job in some capacity, but to get into the managerial aspects, almost anywhere I could apply wants lawyers who have worked at a firm for several years, not new grad JDs. What seems attractive about an MBA is the ability to start working right out of business school.

I wouldn't MBA for the reasons the JD/MBA poaster above said

Seems like a waste

I really don't think more education is the answer; it seems like it rarely is ITE

Gunnar Stahl · Post by **Gunnar Stahl** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for the input guys.
While I'm good at math, idk if I'm THAT good... a masters in accounting sounds a little daunting!

The only math you need for accounting is add/subtract and multiply/divide sometimes.

I don't think you should go back to school but if you want to you should get a MACC and not an MBA. You could probably get into the UT-Austin MPA program because it does not require an undergrad accounting background, just 5 pre-req classes.

http://www.mccombs.utexas.edu/MPA/Traditional-MPA.aspx

The only thing is if you aren't from Texas it will cost you 56k. But after a few years of big 4 you'd probably be making ~80k in a low COL city (Houston/Dallas).

guano · Post by **guano** » Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:47 pm

With very few exceptions an MBA is a waste of time and money.
Unless you A) are a mid career professional, or B) got into an M7 and want to go into consulting (and possibly Ibanking or maybe marketing), do not get an MBA

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