What's the starting salary at non-big law firms? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Just curious- for firms that specialize in stuff like personal injury, workers' comp, etc..., does anybody know where I can find data (or anyone has an idea here) on what a first-year associate is paid?

[Void]

Just curious- for firms that specialize in stuff like personal injury, workers' comp, etc..., does anybody know where I can find data (or anyone has an idea here) on what a first-year associate is paid?

Fee Fi Foe Fum, I smell the blood of a 0L!

[Elston Gunn]

It depends a lot. Probably around $40-$60K for most based on the NALP graph of entry level salaries. Top plaintiffs' shops, mid sized defense firms and boutiques are often more in the $80-$120K range, depending on city, but these are very difficult to land entry level.

[EvilClinton]

Just curious- for firms that specialize in stuff like personal injury, workers' comp, etc..., does anybody know where I can find data (or anyone has an idea here) on what a first-year associate is paid?

This does not need to be anonymous.

[Anonymous User]

^ OP Here: Yes it does. Not a 0L. A upcoming graduate with an interview set at a 20-lawyer firm in the DC area that does PI, workers comp, etc...

I'm just wondering what my salary expectations should be if that discussion comes up.

[rad lulz]

^ OP Here: Yes it does. Not a 0L. A upcoming graduate with an interview set at a 20-lawyer firm in the DC area that does PI, workers comp, etc...

I'm just wondering what my salary expectations should be if that discussion comes up.

Probably like $40k-$60k.

And it's probably not going to be an easily-earned $40k-$60k

[Anonymous User]

OP here: I wouldn't accept 40k, that's for sure, given that my current internship pays that much. Wouldn't make sense. Anyways, thanks for the answer- just wanted to know what I should expect.

[rad lulz]

OP here: I wouldn't accept 40k, that's for sure, given that my current internship pays that much. Wouldn't make sense. Anyways, thanks for the answer- just wanted to know what I should expect.

Will your internship actually lead to a permanent job?

[Anonymous User]

OP Here: I really don't want to reveal too much about it, but it is conceivable that it would if funding wasn't cut all the time. On the other hand, I've been there for a year already and they already said I can stay through the summer and as long as I want until I find a job or get hired within the huge organization I'm in. Either way, while it's not all about the money, it also is at least partially about it, and 40k a year is just unsustainable especially if I'm asked to work more than 40 hours a week (thus taking away time I could do part-time work elsewhere, etc...).

Also, feel free to let me know if I'm being dumb about that and should just take the job even if it's 40k per year. (They do seem like a pretty good firm in the area so maybe they'll offer more than 40k, who knows. Anything north of 55k I will take).

[somewhatwayward]

OP here: I wouldn't accept 40k, that's for sure, given that my current internship pays that much. Wouldn't make sense. Anyways, thanks for the answer- just wanted to know what I should expect.

Can you stay in the internship after you graduate? If not you should probably at least pursue this opportunity. If you are a 3L, I don't know if you can afford to be picky. It is always easier to find a job if you have a job. 40K is not too great but it is definitely better than the thousands of grads w no job.

[Anonymous User]

OP Here: Yeah, they said at least through the summer I can stay with them. I plan on doing so unless something changes (get another job), and work there 15 or so hours a week while I study for the bar. I know they wouldn't mind taking me full-time. I just would feel embarrassed being a graduated student and still stuck in my 2L summer internship. Would really like to get a job that requires a JD, but I'm not sure I can live in an expensive city on just 40k, if that is indeed what this firm will pay (I have no idea, I'm interviewing with them in a few weeks).

[Anonymous User]

It depends a lot. Probably around $40-$60K for most based on the NALP graph of entry level salaries. Top plaintiffs' shops, mid sized defense firms and boutiques are often more in the $80-$120K range, depending on city, but these are very difficult to land entry level.

Can you say more on how difficult it is? I will work at one of these this summer, and want to assess my chance.

[rad lulz]

It depends a lot. Probably around $40-$60K for most based on the NALP graph of entry level salaries. Top plaintiffs' shops, mid sized defense firms and boutiques are often more in the $80-$120K range, depending on city, but these are very difficult to land entry level.

Can you say more on how difficult it is? I will work at one of these this summer, and want to assess my chance.

Well you're summering at one so you know better than any of us

[2LsAPlenty]

Difficult because of the economy, the number of graduates and the limited availability of private practice positions. Also, rad is being a little rough - feeling his oats because he got a jerb.

[Anonymous User]

haha, thanks. I am around here long enough that I know rad's typical responses.

I am working one of those firms this summer, so haven't started yet. Plus, I want to hear others' experience since I may not totally trust what my firm says.

[rad lulz]

haha, thanks. I am around here long enough that I know rad's typical responses.

I am working one of those firms this summer, so haven't started yet. Plus, I want to hear others' experience since I may not totally trust what my firm says.

It's almost impossible to say because their hiring is almost surely 100% based on specific need, which is hard to forecast and very firm specific.

My answer wasn't meant to be facetious

[Anonymous User]

no harm, no foul, rad.

I guess my question to everyone is: How can I guess what the firm needs? Can I base on the trend of their recent lateral hiring? Type of cases?

[rad lulz]

no harm, no foul, rad.

I guess my question to everyone is: How can I guess what the firm needs? Can I base on the trend of their recent lateral hiring? Type of cases?

Hard to say without knowing the type of firm you're working at

Just tell us

You're anon

[Anonymous User]

It's a mid-sized, defense firm. In the past year or so, the firm has hired a few laterals who specialize in areas that the firm does not do work in before. So I am just curious if I can speculate anything from that.

[rad lulz]

It's a mid-sized, defense firm. In the past year or so, the firm has hired a few laterals who specialize in areas that the firm does not do work in before. So I am just curious if I can speculate anything from that.

Maybe it's a growing area. Maybe it's growing but they don't need any new associates on it. Maybe they took care of anticipated growth with lateral.

People will probably tell you what groups are busy, but then again, it that size firm, don't be surprised if there aren't formal "groups" per se

Hell, associates may just work for a bunch of partners at once. I don't know how your firm is leveraged

I honestly thing you ought to not worry about it and just do your best. I'm guessing you may not have a lot of choice about what work you get (I don't know how your summer program is)

Bottom line though is if they don't see the growth/levels they were expecting, you could get no offered, even if you do good work. That's just the way it is with firms of that size, generally

[2LsAPlenty]

Some firms also hire to keep people in the rotation since the attrition rate is fairly high even at smaller firms. So if you hang in long enough, you may be ok anyway.

[reasonable_man]

How mid-sized is this mid-sized firm? If its 20 or 30 (which I wouldn't really call mid-sized) and they are saying that you can stay on they MAY (stress may) hire you full time at some point down the line. If they have 50 to 90 lawyers and they haven't extended you a fulltime offer as of yet, you have failed to impress them and your internship at this firm is almost certainly not going to lead to anything positive. A firm with 50 to 90 lawyers can almost always promote a clerk to an attorney if they want to.

[Anonymous User]

The firm has 50-90 lawyers, and this year summer class is very small. I'll see how much I can impress them this summer and also start praying.

[reasonable_man]

The firm has 50-90 lawyers, and this year summer class is very small. I'll see how much I can impress them this summer and also start praying.

I hate to say it - but if you don't get a solid offer, its not them, its you.

[Elston Gunn]

The firm has 50-90 lawyers, and this year summer class is very small. I'll see how much I can impress them this summer and also start praying.

I hate to say it - but if you don't get a solid offer, its not them, its you.

Are you confused? It seems like you think this guy already summered at this place and hasn't gotten a full time offer, but it sounds to me like he's about to summer there after his 2L year, so of course they haven't made a full time offer.