Chicago PLIP Question- Not Patent Bar Eligible Forum

[Nammertat]

First and foremost, thanks to those who offer advice!

I am currently a GW 1L with decent grades (top 15%). I do not have a technical degree, but have 3 years of WE in software engineering. Does anyone have an idea how successful I'll be getting PLIP interviews?

I realize I'm only looking at patent litigation groups, and ideally can land in a firm that does more than just IP. (Sidley, Crowell, Covington, etc)

Any feedback would be great!

**EDIT** I recently accepted a summer associate position with a large CA tech company's in-house patent litigation group. I'm hoping this eases employers' concerns about my technical background and patent focus.

[target]

I assume you have registered for it since the deadline for registration has passed. When the firm list comes out, just bid on firms that you would like to work at. I know some firms say that you can substitute WE for a degree in engineering. So maybe it depends on what your WE is exactly and how you sell it.

[Nammertat]

I assume you have registered for it since the deadline for registration has passed. When the firm list comes out, just bid on firms that you would like to work at. I know some firms say that you can substitute WE for a degree in engineering. So maybe it depends on what your WE is exactly and how you sell it.

Yeah, I did already register for it. I'm not concerned about selling my WE as technical enough once I'm in the room, I'm more worried about the bias of not being patent bar eligible. Does anyone have/know someone with experience in this?

[buddyt]

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[bigredforlaw]

I don't know much about IP in the software industry but with top 15% grades you should be competitive for IP positions even without being patent bar eligible IF your resume/interview screams I'm interested in IP litigation (think state/city bar IP sections, IP inn of courts, law school IP clubs, tech journals etc). I'm more than a few credits shy of patent bar eligibility but got interviews at even IP boutiques. I haven't been to PLIP yet but all the firms I interviewed at do recruit there. Make sure you bid on firms that do litigation in the software space and good luck!

[09042014]

Just don't waste any bids on firms that does prosecution. I'd stick to big law firms that do IP lit.

[DildaMan]

My classmate is a CS major but not eligible for pbar without another 9 units. He got plenty of patent lit interviews last year; he struck out for anything prosecution related. Same WE as you, software engineer for 3-4 years.

[kryptix]

Biochem degree, 2-3 years biotech experience before 3-4 years software engineering, every single IP interview I did stuck me on a pharma track rather than a engineering track and almost no one considered me for engineering... Issue is that I am definitely much more up to date on the software side than biotech so it didn't help me much when I got organic chem questions...

[r6_philly]

I think most firms use your degree to approximate your competency in given technology. Yes you can have software engineering on your resume, but how good is the experience? What is software engineering anyway -- my UG software engineering classes involved no coding, only process and designs. Besides, they don't have a handy dandy GPA to gauge your performance. It is also harder to sell you to clients, even in lit. I think when there was a lack of law students with tech degrees, no one cared too much. There are just too many with them nowadays.

[Nammertat]

I think most firms use your degree to approximate your competency in given technology. Yes you can have software engineering on your resume, but how good is the experience? What is software engineering anyway -- my UG software engineering classes involved no coding, only process and designs. Besides, they don't have a handy dandy GPA to gauge your performance. It is also harder to sell you to clients, even in lit. I think when there was a lack of law students with tech degrees, no one cared too much. There are just too many with them nowadays.

These points are all well taken, and ultimately at the base of my concerns. I should add to this conversation that I have secured a 1L SA in-house with a large CA tech company doing patent litigation work. My hope is this will ease employers' concerns about my non-technical degrees!

[r6_philly]

I think most firms use your degree to approximate your competency in given technology. Yes you can have software engineering on your resume, but how good is the experience? What is software engineering anyway -- my UG software engineering classes involved no coding, only process and designs. Besides, they don't have a handy dandy GPA to gauge your performance. It is also harder to sell you to clients, even in lit. I think when there was a lack of law students with tech degrees, no one cared too much. There are just too many with them nowadays.

These points are all well taken, and ultimately at the base of my concerns. I should add to this conversation that I have secured a 1L SA in-house with a large CA tech company doing patent litigation work. My hope is this will ease employers' concerns about my non-technical degrees!

It isn't something that will ultimately stop you from getting a job you want. Just be aware that when comparing to other candidates, it may be a point against you (comparatively), and maybe two points at some firms.

[Jsa725]

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[kryptix]

I think most firms use your degree to approximate your competency in given technology. Yes you can have software engineering on your resume, but how good is the experience? What is software engineering anyway -- my UG software engineering classes involved no coding, only process and designs. Besides, they don't have a handy dandy GPA to gauge your performance. It is also harder to sell you to clients, even in lit. I think when there was a lack of law students with tech degrees, no one cared too much. There are just too many with them nowadays.

Yeah but I would think that the roles I have had on the IT side (and that I currently hold as a part-time student) would have been enough to convey my competency... You don't stay on at the places I've been if your no good...

[r6_philly]

Yeah but I would think that the roles I have had on the IT side (and that I currently hold as a part-time student) would have been enough to convey my competency... You don't stay on at the places I've been if your no good...

That brings on a bunch of other questions such as "why aren't you doing that if you are so good?" They may not ask you outright, but we all know if your experience is that good, you are taking a paycut to work twice as much, it is a little hard to convince people that. I was not always successful in doing so myself.

[kryptix]

Yeah but I would think that the roles I have had on the IT side (and that I currently hold as a part-time student) would have been enough to convey my competency... You don't stay on at the places I've been if your no good...

That brings on a bunch of other questions such as "why aren't you doing that if you are so good?" They may not ask you outright, but we all know if your experience is that good, you are taking a paycut to work twice as much, it is a little hard to convince people that. I was not always successful in doing so myself.

Yeah the only real argument I had was that I felt that it would raise the glass ceiling for me because I wasn't founding the next Facebook and the path to CIO is worse than the path to partner...

[buddyt]

Yeah but I would think that the roles I have had on the IT side (and that I currently hold as a part-time student) would have been enough to convey my competency... You don't stay on at the places I've been if your no good...

That brings on a bunch of other questions such as "why aren't you doing that if you are so good?" They may not ask you outright, but we all know if your experience is that good, you are taking a paycut to work twice as much, it is a little hard to convince people that. I was not always successful in doing so myself.

Yeah the only real argument I had was that I felt that it would raise the glass ceiling for me because I wasn't founding the next Facebook and the path to CIO is worse than the path to partner...

Interested in others' thoughts on this, as this is basically my argument for getting out of IT and into law.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah but I would think that the roles I have had on the IT side (and that I currently hold as a part-time student) would have been enough to convey my competency... You don't stay on at the places I've been if your no good...

That brings on a bunch of other questions such as "why aren't you doing that if you are so good?" They may not ask you outright, but we all know if your experience is that good, you are taking a paycut to work twice as much, it is a little hard to convince people that. I was not always successful in doing so myself.

Yeah the only real argument I had was that I felt that it would raise the glass ceiling for me because I wasn't founding the next Facebook and the path to CIO is worse than the path to partner...

Interested in others' thoughts on this, as this is basically my argument for getting out of IT and into law.

I think it's a mistake to equate IT work with engineering backgrounds... Some IT work could pass as engineering (system design, virtual platform design, etc) but windows server setup and break/fix is a whole different story.

[r6_philly]

Yeah the only real argument I had was that I felt that it would raise the glass ceiling for me because I wasn't founding the next Facebook and the path to CIO is worse than the path to partner...

I can tell you that many interviewers had no stomach to hear second career 2Ls talking so ambitiously.

[kryptix]

Yeah the only real argument I had was that I felt that it would raise the glass ceiling for me because I wasn't founding the next Facebook and the path to CIO is worse than the path to partner...

I can tell you that many interviewers had no stomach to hear second career 2Ls talking so ambitiously.

I didn't actually talk about gunning for partner and I'm not sure I will, I kinda like financial services and may end up swinging back. When I tried to come up with some higher motive it always kinda fell flat. I went from research to financial services for more money for my family once already. The phd heavy firms didn't like my motivations though...

Be humble but confident, especially as a second career candidate, they want to see that your willing to be the bitch again and do the grunt work that you got out of in your first career.

[Jsa725]

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[Nammertat]

To get back to the original thread- Does anyone have additional insight for Chicago PLIP results based on a lack of patent bar eligibility?

[target]

I probably depends on how good your grades are and what you want to do. Most GP firms dont emphasize on pat bar eligibility for lit works.